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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › SEF 94 Rox!
10-26-2011 12:33 AM  6 years agoPost 21
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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By the way, this statement:
These gas motors run fine all day on the 87 octane grade, and actually perform worse with higher octane fuel.
IS accurate for me. You may not think it is accurate for you, and that's fine you can disagree.
-=>Raja.
Then might I suggest that you state it like...... "I have found that my engines run worse on higher octane fuel".

Just because it is accurate for you does not mean that it will be for everyone. You make it sound like it will be though.

Here is what VP Racing has to say about Octane and Small Engines...
Do I need a fuel that is 94 octane?
Most small engines are designed to run on 87 - 92 octane fuels. However, the higher octane can help when engines are running hotter than they should. Elevated engine temps will require higher-octane fuel to prevent pre-ignition and detonation. Pre-ignition and detonation can be devastating to small engines. Example: If the needle valve on your carburetor is not adjusted properly the engine may be running lean, which could raise your engine’s operating temperatures. The engine may seem like it’s running and performing well, but the added heat is a drawback, which will create a demand for extra octane. This can occur with the changing of seasons as air density is fluctuating. If you’re not readjusting the engine’s carburetor accordingly, it’s likely that your engine will be running in a lean condition. Higher octane can assist air-cooled engines in cooling, even if dirt and build-up have formed on the engine head.

I've read not to use high-octane fuels in these engines—why is that?
In some cases, that's a true statement. BUT…if the high-octane fuel has been designed properly (such as SEF94, to which VP Racing Fuels can attest), it can actually allow small engines to have better ignition, vaporization, and cooling capabilities than street gas or lower octane fuels.
I would like to think that if as you said these engines will run worse on higher octane fuel, that VP Racing would have made the fuel a lower octane. I mean, they designed the fuel specifically for these engines. For some reason they think that making the fuel 94 octane vs 87 is a better idea. I think they would know best.
The cheapest option is 16 quarts for $127.84 or $31.96 per gallon.
Must be some other cheaper place to get it than direct, right?
Considering I just paid $50 for 5 gallons, I would have to say there is definitely better options to purchase the fuel.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-26-2011 12:38 AM  6 years agoPost 22
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Price
Considering I just paid $50 for 5 gallons, I would have to say there is definitely better options to purchase the fuel.
Did you become a dealer to do this?

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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10-26-2011 12:40 AM  6 years agoPost 23
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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Looking at the ads and web sites for this fuel, its obvious that its targeted towards those who know nothing about small engines and never maintain them. Sold in little quarts to be used for weed wackers, leaf blowers, mowers and/or snow blowers.
Not sure what websites you are looking at. But that is not the only way it is marketed.

It is also marketed as a performance fuel.

FYI, VP Racing bought Powermaster Fuels to get into the Hobby Fuel business.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-26-2011 12:42 AM  6 years agoPost 24
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Considering I just paid $50 for 5 gallons, I would have to say there is definitely better options to purchase the fuel.
Did you become a dealer to do this?
-=>Raja.
Ummm... No. I walked into the the local dealer here that sells Fuel Oil, Racing Fuels, Farm Diesel, etc and walked out the door with a 5 gallon pale.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-26-2011 12:47 AM  6 years agoPost 25
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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FYI, THey also use a special blend of Motul oil in their Pre-Mix products. Do you really think they would use such a high quality oil in a product that is targeted at people that know nothing about small engines.

I would say they used a high quality oil in their high quality product

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-26-2011 12:59 AM  6 years agoPost 26
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I'd like to hear from our modded engine builders on what their take is either on this product or this octane level in our engines.
94 octane isn't that much higher. I have heard aviation fuel or 100+ race fuel isn't good though. I have never had a problem with gas smell in my basement where I keep my heli's and my Hanson 26cc pro plus has had no problems since I bought it in 2007 on pump gas.
If good stuff, this SEF 94 stuff maybe another good option for some guys.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-26-2011 01:00 AM  6 years agoPost 27
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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where's the beef Raja ???
""Otherwise you're paying more for fuel than necessary, without much in other benefits""

oh snap,, like all the high cost Bling in this hobby that 30% of the people don't need,,, but want,,

""These gas motors run fine all day on the 87 octane grade, and actually perform worse with higher octane fuel""

what engines ??, stock engines ??, or the modified engines with increased compression ????
yes yes a stock engine may (may) not benefit from this fuel,, and yes yes a modified engine with increased compression may (may) run fine with 87, but that does not mean the Mod engine will not benefit from this fuel

""May be worth a test to the users (if they care) to see if they are losing any power by using it compared to gas or coleman""

well sparx tested it and likes it

""Looking at the ads and web sites for this fuel, its obvious that its targeted towards those who know nothing about small engines and never maintain them. Sold in little quarts to be used for weed wackers, leaf blowers, mowers and/or snow blowers""

well snap Raja,, sparx's post was not targeting those people, it was targeted to people that know RC Gasser Helis

"" Fact is if you winterize/summerize your lawn mower/snow blower at the end of each season, it will start every time on the first full the next year when you need it""

well poop Raja,, this is a heli forum, you are going off topic there

""Not trying to take anything away from this fuel""

no, no, not at all,, you are just trying to make sparx look bad

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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10-26-2011 05:25 AM  6 years agoPost 28
Dingo07

rrApprentice

Newport Coast, CA - USA

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Can't we all just get along! Geez...

There's other ways to bump performance in these small engines other than a bolt-on big bore kit (more displacement), or increase compression (mill the head). Try getting a lightweight piston, hotter coil, head extension heatsink, colder sparkplug (I use NGK BR7EIX) and lightweight fan, as some examples I employ on my G2D that's 11 years young. Here's a pic of her ...

Standard pump fuel (highest octane available) with an octane boost (in MY case, for This engine) has provided a couple things, mainly a clean strong running engine that I don't have to rebuild often. Keep in mind this engine is in my on-road 1/5 scale, however, where I run it the throttle is pegged wide open for about 10 seconds to get from one side of the lot to the other (about 250-300 yards), and I get about 40 minutes on a full tank. I sometimes go through 3 tanks in a day. Talk about stress on an engine.

Do some consider this engine modified? YES, but I did not increase it's displacement - I just made it run more efficient by removing rotating mass, increasing the spark voltage and employing a sparkplug that uses the supplied voltage to a benefit in igniting the fuel, and ridding the engine of heat more efficiently as well.

With all that said, this engine Doeas need a higher octane to run better... which is why it Does!

Someone send me a couple bottles of the SEF 94 and I'll let you know how it compares to what I been using for years.

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10-27-2011 03:46 AM  6 years agoPost 29
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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I do not need to hear from any of the engine modifiers. I have run the stuff and I know what it does. They are not chemists. If VP racing says it was designed to work in small high performance engines, then you can pretty much rest assured it will.

As I said, I ran Coleman, 87 pump, 99 octane AV and SEF 94 back to back all weekend. The only fuel that will be flowing thru my carb from here on out is SEF 94 period!

Dingo, if you want to try it out, I suggest you do as I did. I bought a quart from Horizon Hobby.

http://search.horizonhobby.com/inde...id=133433C2D77D

It is a little pricey to get it that way, but I wanted to try it. I did not want to get stuck with 5 gallons or 6 quarts or whatever. So I spent the $11 to get the quart so I could run it and see how it was.

Disclaimer time. If you do not push your heli, you most likely will not notice any difference. In other words, if you are flying circuits, doing climb outs, simple loops and rolls and autos..... you are not going to see any big benefits. You will get a cleaner and more consistent running fuel with no ethanol that does not smell like gas for sure. And if you can get it for a decent price and are already running Coleman, then it is a no brainer IMHO. But you will not be "harnessing" the "other" benefits of this fuel.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-27-2011 04:00 AM  6 years agoPost 30
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I do not need to hear from any of the engine modifiers. I have run the stuff and I know what it does. They are not chemists. If VP racing says it was designed to work in small high performance engines, then you can pretty much rest assured it will.
Well geeze Sparx ,,,,I asked you before and you said this...
Are you really asking me those questions? Because if so i will have to defer you to someone who has the skill and knowledge to answer those questions.
*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call
We only disagree basically on one point which I will not pick the scab off of now lol . I really wanted to know your opinion is all.

But anyway what kind of oil do they mix in with this stuff? Is it synthetic? Guys are pretty particular in their brand of oil they use and Hanson only recommends Pennzoil Marine 2 stroke oil. So what brand is it? You said you know what it does,,,what does it do?? Is it just the smell or lack of or what else,,,,performance? Will it void a Hanson warranty for example? That's why I asked for some engine builder's input as you or I are not a petroleum specialist or an engine builder.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-27-2011 04:08 AM  6 years agoPost 31
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Well, turboomni, up to this point my opinions have been drug thru the mud by you and many others. So why do you now want to hear my opinions. You and the others have made it a point to tell me and everyone else that I have not idea what I am talking about. Not only in the public forums, but in PM's as well. So why does what I have to say hold any merit now? Why should I bother to share my experiences and opinions with people that do not value them? Oh, rest assured, those that do place some value on them, I am more then willing to share with them. But I just do so in PMs
But anyway what kind of oil do they mix in with this stuff? Is it synthetic? And what brand? You said you know what it does,,,what does it do?? Is it just the smell or lack of or what else?
All those questions can be answered with a little be of Googling . Hell, I already answered one of those questions in one of my previous posts. Guess you did not bother to read it huh. Or did you just read it and make it say what you wanted to hear?

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-27-2011 04:20 AM  6 years agoPost 32
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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sparx, I didn't say, but my loco Saw Shop sells it too, $9+ a quart , I asked if it was that good and I was told the Saw Guys that run their Saws all day> some have said they noticed a diff for the better when their Saws get real hot, just as you said

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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10-27-2011 04:28 AM  6 years agoPost 33
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Well, turboomni, up to this point my opinions have been drug thru the mud by you and many others. So why do you now want to hear my opinions. You and the others have made it a point to tell me and everyone else that I have not idea what I am talking about. Not only in the public forums, but in PM's as well.
As I said before we had an argument on a public forum...so what ,,,we disagreed ,,and now you roll over on your back like a little dog as the victim,,,lol I don't believe that for a minute,,lol Poor baby,,,poor baby,,,,,,,,,,
On the other hand I have seen your vids and seen other posts on other subjects and know you are not an idiot or a poor RC heli pilot. That is why I like the challenge of pulling out the sword and dueling with you on a point or points which I do not agree. If you were completely worthless in my my mind ,,why would I expend the effort and TIME to think about what you say and if I disagree then post my thoughts. Your delivery is rather poor at best and that gets the better of many here and elsewhere. It is obvious that your opinions regardless if I agree or not are worth something ,,at least to me,,,they are interesting . If they weren't I wouldn't respond. You can be a real SOB but in your recent responce and past I can be a SOB to you too...great!!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-27-2011 04:32 AM  6 years agoPost 34
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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I am sorry, but I do not play the oil game. If and engine builder tells me that if I do not run this particular oil then he will not support the engine, well, I am going to find another engine builder. As you said, we are not chemists and neither are they.

Again, if the engine builder says that he will not support and engine if you run it on a fuel that is specifically designed to run in high performance engines, then I would again be looking for another builder.

I am sorry, but I will take the word of VP racing over any of the heli engine modifiers out there. As you said, they are not chemists, VP Racing developers are and their products are tried and true. You cannot say that about all heli engine builders out there.... "Tried and True".

As I said before turboomni, my opinions never mattered to you before. So why should I bother now. You want to know about the stuff... get it here like I did and see for yourself, keep in mind my disclaimer I mentioned in the above post ....

http://search.horizonhobby.com/inde...id=133433C2D77D

Gearhead, Yes, people are charging and arm and a leg for the quarts. Damn shame too. And one of the things that compelled me to try this fuel was watching some videos on youtube of the "Saw Guys" testing different fuels in their chainsaws. It is amazing what you can get from a video of a guy sawing a log

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-27-2011 04:36 AM  6 years agoPost 35
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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As I said before turboomni, my opinions never mattered to you before. So why should I bother now.
Ok ,,gotcha,,,,over and out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ignore ,,again lol

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-27-2011 04:36 AM  6 years agoPost 36
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Your delivery is rather poor at best and that gets the better of many here and elsewhere

You can be a real SOB but in your recent responce and past I can be a SOB to you too...great!!
.

All I am going to say to that is, I treat others as they treat me. I always respond "in kind".

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-27-2011 04:39 AM  6 years agoPost 37
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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which came first the chicken or the egg??

Bye

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-27-2011 04:46 AM  6 years agoPost 38
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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As I said before turboomni, my opinions never mattered to you before. So why should I bother now.
Ok ,,gotcha,,,,over and out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ignore ,,again lol
Thank you and Cya!

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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10-27-2011 05:07 AM  6 years agoPost 39
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Poor baby,,,I think you got your feelings hurt!! lol
Take care Sparx

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-27-2011 08:07 PM  6 years agoPost 40
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Going back to the subject
If you could do the test one more time for me and this time have someone tach your head during full power climbouts to see how much rpm each fuel will deliver at FCCO, that will be great for me.

I know you don't do tests that way, I'm asking you to do it for me so I can quantify it. Numbers mean alot more to me than I like this fuel better than that.

When I tried Sunoco Ultra 94 fuel in my helis and someone else's (I did 3 of them), there was approximately about 50 rpms loss on average at FCCO when compared to 87 octane fuel.

If you do this, fly the machine for at least 3 minutes first before doing the FCCO's, as a cold motor will pull better than a fully warmed up one. You can optimize the needles for each fuel for max performance, but leave everything else the same. Then please let us know for:

For 87 octane, you got W rpms
For 94 Octane, you got X rpms
For 99 Octane, you got Y rpms
and for SEF 94, you got Z rpms.

No rush whenever you can find a good day to do it, that will be great.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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