RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1147 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › returning pilot needs help
10-13-2011 10:40 PM  6 years agoPost 1
ErgoNut

rrApprentice

Auburn, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

so I have been out of the hobby for about 7 years now. When I stopped flying, Furys were popular, 2.4ghz radios hadn't been invented yet, piezo gyros had recently replaced mechanicals, and electric helis were a joke.
Now I am looking to get back into recreational flying and it seems like the entire hobby has changed. I'm hoping some of you fine fellows can bring me up to speed on everything thats different now.

I'm mostly interested in small electrics for indoor/outdoor flying.

Don't laugh at the following questions, I've seriously been out of it for several years:

So are FM radios completely obsolete? Is everything 2.4ghz now? Whats this I read about transmitters and receivers "binding"? Seems like they are not all compatible.
Which are the good brands of small electric helos? Anything to watch out for?

Looks like most of the ARF helis come with transmitters included. The prices are insanely low compared to what I was used to back in the day, are they complete junk?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2011 10:48 PM  6 years agoPost 2
MichiganFlyer

rrElite Veteran

Lansing,MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Buy a RTF mCPx. Comes with a 2.4 tx and is small. Not so much of an indoor heli until you get your skills back.

Friends don't encourage friends to fly helis! It can cause part shortages.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2011 11:10 PM  6 years agoPost 3
Two Left Thumbs

rrKey Veteran

Houston, Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Welcome back. I took a break from I think 2007 until recently. Much has changed.

72 still works as well as ever. You can use your old equipment, but it is hard to justify buying new 72 gear. 2.4 has real advantages, my guess is if you stick around you will end up on 2.4.

How small do you want? The mCPx is fun, but it depends on your skill level. To get my feet wet I got one, and then quickly wanted a 'real' model as well.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2011 11:14 PM  6 years agoPost 4
thenewguy

rrElite Veteran

Corvallis, Oregon Where there is liquid sunshine!

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So are FM radios completely obsolete? Is everything 2.4ghz now? Whats this I read about transmitters and receivers "binding"? Seems like they are not all compatible.
Which are the good brands of small electric helos? Anything to watch out for?
FM radios are not obsolete they can still be used just not main stream anymore and fading away. To purchase one would not be recommended compared to what is on the market in 2.4.

Yes most everything is 2.4 now.

Binding a transmitter and receiver is so they only talk to one another. Major brand (Futaba) to major brand (Spectrum) is not compatible. There are exception to this rule.

A Blade 450 RTF, Rave 450, Align 450 Pro is not bad to start out with. You want to watch out for making sure they are actually ready to fly. When they come out of the box it should be looked over by a good pilot and flown by them. This insures nothing is actually wrong.

Get a sim and practice practice practice. Oh yeah, welcome back.

Thanks,
Chris

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2011 11:37 PM  6 years agoPost 5
jgunpilot

rrKey Veteran

Pollock, LA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The mCPx will allow you to get your skills back quickly because crashes rarely result in serious damage. It's kind of like buying a sim, such as Phoenix, which you should also do.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2011 11:44 PM  6 years agoPost 6
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Whats this I read about transmitters and receivers "binding"?
Since new transmitters will allow setups for about 10 diffrent models, binding is the process of making sure you have the correct model selected for a given receiver. Prevents trying to fly with the wrong model selected in your transmitter. Trying to fly with the wrong model selected usually ends up in a crash, without binding option. Once a particular receiver is bound to the particular model selected on your transmitter, the receiver will only turn on if the proper model is selected.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 01:06 AM  6 years agoPost 7
racr2453

rrNovice

Liverpool, NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Brian!!!!! You gotta come out to the Stars field, Bob Fisk, Brian Thomas, Dan williams stops by sometimes..I just got back into it as well, I have a trex 700e, but want to get a nitro instead. The flybarless stuff is great! Still in the band?

Brian Kiggins

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 02:12 AM  6 years agoPost 8
JeepCJ

rrKey Veteran

Pennellville NY (Syracuse Heli Group)

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Brian, Welcome back! We are still
Flying at the STARS field, weather
Permitting. We just started the indoor season
At Walts on Wednesday nights. Stop out!!

Bob

Team Synergy/ Team Scorpion

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 02:13 AM  6 years agoPost 9
ErgoNut

rrApprentice

Auburn, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hey wow somebody remembers me from the old Syracuse Heli Club!

It's wild learning about all the new stuff, it's like starting all over again. Which actually kinda sucks considering all the time and money I poured into it years ago.

This time I really want to stick with small electrics (450 size maybe) and little micro stuff just for fun. I still have my Fury 60 and all my radio and field stuff but I think I'll just sell it to fund some new gear.
Which brings me to the point of this tread: What should I buy to get back into it?
Right now I'm looking at a Walkera V120D05 bundle w/transmitter from Xheli, but is that stuff more toy like?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 02:37 AM  6 years agoPost 10
racr2453

rrNovice

Liverpool, NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bacon Lips!!!!!

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 02:43 AM  6 years agoPost 11
ErgoNut

rrApprentice

Auburn, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

heh! We retired Bacon Lips earlier this year and started a new band called "Pull The Plug". We're playing November 18 at Rosies Sports Pub on Tipp Hill. Come check us out!

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 02:55 AM  6 years agoPost 12
racr2453

rrNovice

Liverpool, NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nice! I dont know much about the smaller electrics, I see alot of the t-rex 450's at the field, I had a t-rex 500 and it flew super nice. Its crazy learning everything again, stuff sure has changed!

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 03:00 AM  6 years agoPost 13
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A little bit of information to clarify "binding" of 2.4 GHz receivers.

With the "old" 72 MHz stuff, you really only needed to make sure that the receiver you were about to use was on the same frequency (channel) as the transmitter. (Yes you may have had to think about positive shift, negative shift and a few other odds and ends, but once you had the right receiver crystal plugged in, the receiver would function with your transmitter -- And just about everyone else's transmitter on that same frequency). Remember having the frequency control board at your flying site -- and you didn't turn on your TX unless you had the pin that matched your TX frequency? We always had to beware of accidental "shoot downs".

The 72 MHz band was chopped up into 50 channels, numbered 11 through 60. Each channel was centered around a specific slice of the RF spectrum, occupied a certain width of the spectrum, and with a small guard band in-between to insure that channel 11 didn't splatter all over channel 12....and so on.

That particular slice of the 72 MHz spectrum was set aside by the FCC for industrial controls use, and RC use, and we shared that slice.

The 2.4 GHz systems operate in a completely different fashion. All 2.4 GHz systems operate within a slice of the RF spectrum a little further up the frequency range, centered around the 2.4 GHz value. But that 2.4 GHz splotch of RF is also shared with just about every other modern day appliance operating in the 2.4 GHz band. There are no "channels" per se, set aside for each transmitter, there is one slice shared by all. You're flying with cell phones, cordless phones, WiFi, wireless internet, and all sorts of other consumer goods.

How does your lonely little receiver know WHAT to listen to? Think about your PC. It's connected to the internet with zillions of other devices. How does anything on the internet know how to communicate with only your PC when everyone else in the world is hooked up to the same network?

Inside your PC's Ethernet interface is a device with an address that is unique to that bit of hardware. No other bit of hardware shares that same unique address. It's referred to as the MAC address -- "Media Access Control Address". That address is used by stuff out on the internet to transfer information to and from your PC, and your PC only. Through the magic of software and hardware, that unique MAC address gets translated to your IP (internet protocol) address.

With all the traffic on the net, only stuff sent to your unique MAC address makes it all the way through to your computer. And stuff from your computer to the world also contains that MAC address so others know where it came from.

Back to the 2.4 GHz world.

Each 2.4 GHz transmitter has built into it something known as the Global Unique Identifier (GUID). It's a number unique to each transmitter. This GUID is used by the receiver to identify transmissions meant only for it, and no-one else. When you buy a new system, or add a new receiver, the receiver needs to be "taught" to listen to only your transmitter. Hence, the "binding" process. In a Spektrum or JR system, one plugs a "binding plug" into a special port on the receiver (usually the traditional battery socket. The plug connects what would be the "unused" pin of the battery port to ground. When power is applied to the receiver with the binding plug installed, the receiver software goes into a "learning" mode. Meanwhile, the TX has a pushbutton (or other switch) that is depressed WHILE turning the TX on. This puts the TX into the "learn" mode, as well. With the TX in close proximity to the RX, and since both are in "learn" mode, the receiver listens for the GUID being sent out by the TX. At the end of the "learn" or "binding" process, you have trained the receiver to listen only to signals from your transmitter. Turn things off, remove the bind plug, you're ready to roll.

Binding need only happen once, it's not a "do every time" thing. You can re-bind any time you wish, that's usually reserved for when you move equipment from aircraft to aircraft, or change receivers or other special purposes.

Your transmitter ships out informational packets of stick position information, each one has the TX GUID included, such that your receiver can identify which batch of data out in the ether is assigned to it. The receiver will ignore all other transmissions whose GUID don't match what it learned at binding time.

There is some other magic going on between your TX and RX, but essentially, once the receiver has been trained to your transmitter, it should respond only to messages from that transmitter.

In the case of JR and Spektrum systems, other vital information learned by the receiver at binding time is which model setup your transmitter is set to at the time it's bound. My JR X9303 can store setups for 30 different models. The newer X9503 can store setups for 50 different models. This additional information is used for what the Spektrum/JR people call "Model Match".

The newer 72 MHz systems that had been sold were already capable of storing setups for multiple models, but with each different model, you needed to be very careful about selecting the correct model setup in the TX that matched the heli or plane you were about to fly. If you happened to have the wrong model selected, the RX didn't care, responded to the transmitter and you could end up with your hands quite full at takeoff time.

With the model match feature, even after you have properly bound the RX to the TX, the RX will still recognize your transmitter's signal, but it won't respond to the transmitter unless the model memory that's active in the transmitter matches what the receiver learned at binding time. It's a bit of extra insurance to make sure you don't try to fly with the wrong model selected. Not all 2.4 GHz systems HAVE this feature. It's in ALL JR and Spektrum systems, something similar is present in the high-end Airtronics systems, and the others, I don't know off-hand.

Using the GUID coupled with some other cool network-inspired ideas, you no longer need the frequency clip before you turn your TX on, and you should be able to fly glitch free, even in spite of competing interference.

Some of the other cool by-products of the 2.4 GHz technology is a great deal of immunity to metal-to-metal induced RF noise, immunity to the RF noise given off by spark-ignition systems, and other stuff that the 72 MHz flyers needed to worry about.

-----

Your 72 MHz stuff would be just fine, but with an electric heli, you do need to worry some about noise from the electronic speed control coupling into your RX and wreaking havoc. Some simple precautions are usually needed to insure trouble-free performance, but by no means is your 72 MHz stuff outdated and obsolete. Just make sure your batteries are fresh after all those years of sitting around gathering dust.

-----

What heli you buy is completely up to you. Whether a kit, ARF, or something in-between, make sure it's properly assembled and that loctite was used where it needs to be.

-----

Good electrics? There are tons of them, from very small stuff such as the E-Flite Blade MCPx, Trex 250s, 450's, 500, 550, 600, 700 and larger. Check out the stuff sold by the advertisers here on RR, it's all mainstream, and for the most part you can't go wrong with any of the main-stream stuff. Align, Rave, Miniature Aircraft, Synergy, Velocity, Outrage, Gaui...it's a cool world these days, there are so many good choices, it's hard to just pick and fly one.

Welcome back, learn the new electric heli and radio lingo, do your homework and enjoy.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 01:11 PM  6 years agoPost 14
ErgoNut

rrApprentice

Auburn, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

awesome post, thanks very much! I still have my 8103 transmitter which I will probably convert to 2.4Ghz with a new module.

Am I correct that not all 2.4ghz systems are compatible with each other? There are differnet protcols that each manufacture uses which prevents using brand A transmitter with brand B receiver.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 01:25 PM  6 years agoPost 15
gordart

rrApprentice

Lansdale, PA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

DKSHEMA,
That was a very informative post.
Great job!!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 03:56 PM  6 years agoPost 16
Rafael23cc

rrKey Veteran

Junction City, KS

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Am I correct that not all 2.4ghz systems are compatible with each other? There are differnet protcols that each manufacture uses which prevents using brand A transmitter with brand B receiver.
Generally, YES. The exceptions are some cloned rxs making it to the market. But they are clearly labeled as being compatible with _____.
awesome post, thanks very much! I still have my 8103 transmitter which I will probably convert to 2.4Ghz with a new module.
Just be aware, that with a module, you do not have the "model match" feature. Any of your bound receivers will react to the transmitter. The model match feature is only found on radios with 2.4 built in.

I've got 2.4 modules on a 9303 and a 10X.

Rafael

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.
Team Heliproz.com

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 04:16 PM  6 years agoPost 17
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I still have my Fury 60 and all my radio and field stuff but I think I'll just sell it to fund some new gear.
My opinion is don't - you won't get much for it at all. Clean it up, replace the batteries/fuel lines (inside the tank) and rubber dampers. Probably replace the rear bearing on the engine, fire it up and fly it. It'd be a lot better than giving it away for pennies.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 04:42 PM  6 years agoPost 18
Wyorcflyer

rrVeteran

Cheyenne, Wyoming USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

^^^^^^^+1

I agree don't sell your Fury.

I was out of the hobby from about 1999 to 2007 and went through just what you are going through when I jumped back into the hobby. I bought a TREX450. They are nothing like a Fury. The real cheap stuff is not worth owning IMHO, I have flown lots of them and they are not worth it. The small electric stuff Drove me right back to the bigger birds. I have ended up with nitro and elec stuff in all sizes but would not want to part with my larger birds.

I would therefore wait and evaluate whether you like the mosquitoes or want to go back to the Eagle or at least retain the bigger bird that flies like a dream.

Jack

Edit: To be more helpful there is a big jump in performance and stability from the 450 size to the 500 size and to the 550 size. Unfortunately the cost increase is more than linear. Regardless I would go as large as your budget and flying site allow.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 05:06 PM  6 years agoPost 19
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Since new transmitters will allow setups for about 10 diffrent models, binding is the process of making sure you have the correct model selected for a given receiver. Prevents trying to fly with the wrong model selected in your transmitter. Trying to fly with the wrong model selected usually ends up in a crash, without binding option. Once a particular receiver is bound to the particular model selected on your transmitter, the receiver will only turn on if the proper model is selected.
Good post but the model match feature is only found on Spektrum or JR transmitters. You can still connect your tx the wrong model with Futaba and Hitec and some others.
Dkshema......great post!!!

Welcome back OP!!

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2011 05:32 PM  6 years agoPost 20
S.Dykes

rrApprentice

Wesley Chapel, FL - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

model match feature is only found on Spektrum or JR transmitters.
Not totally true. My airtronics has model match.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1147 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › returning pilot needs help
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 11  Topic Subscribe

Monday, September 24 - 8:58 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online