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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Cheap entry into R/C heli flying!
10-13-2011 06:03 PM  7 years agoPost 41
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Mike Fortin,
Your a sponsored pilot and fly Align heli's so clearly you'll say everything you can to back up what you fly,it's your job..Im not flying FBL or a CC 120HV,flybar with a CC ICE 80HV so.You forgot to add all the $$ for the needed upgrade's for the Trex to your price.Don't need any with my Chaos because they took care of it unlike Align..I also get top notch support with my heli which I never have with Align ....
The fact is, if Align sold a kit only 700E it would probably be the same price or pretty darn close.
Then add up the cost of upgrade's to keep the Trex from falling apart .It's a know issue in the Align section..

Ron,
It's a illusion when you make comment's about something you don't own or have.I sold a Trex 700N and Trex 600N just to get a 700/90 size heli.If the Trex was close in price,I'll be flying it now...

You guy's shouldn't knock something until you try it or fly someone's ...Fly what ya like,im happy with my heli...

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10-13-2011 06:20 PM  7 years agoPost 42
3D-ALEX

rrApprentice

Daytona Beach, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

No matter what anyone here says, it will never change the fact that the DESIGN was ripped off, and the clone company has called it their own. Thats just not right in my opinion. period, end of subject.

Alex Morley
Logo 6003D

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10-13-2011 06:26 PM  7 years agoPost 43
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

helixangle
well in my opinion, I have never seen two people try to oversell something in my life.

you say it flies better
Yup,this heli is ALOT better than the Trex and I had all the Trex heli's
then you say the parts are coming from the same wharhouse,
To be honest, the parts from align and chaos come from the exact warehouse and same factory
well if they are coming from the same MFG then they are the same parts,
I can say for a fact, I have flown the Chaos 700E and Align, and the Chaos tops out on top!
what exactly makes it fly better?
And its not a Clone. And its not a clone when it flies better than a high named brandand it's not a clone,
it's not it's not it's not...mom!

Clone (noun)
3. Near copy of hardware or software - computer a hardware device, e.g. a PC, or a piece of software, that is a functional copy of another, more expensive product developed by another manufacturer

Clone (verb)
2. Make a copy of something - transitive verb to produce an exact or near copy of an object or product

nothing against the two of you both but I think Mike has flown more MFG, had real flight time with, and actually flown real 3d on more birds that the two of you put together.
Mike,comment on what you fly and have flown
I thought he was?
That's one reason heli's get bad name's,people that seem fit to give advice on something they know nothing about
well at least you got something right.

you guys should have your heads examined. You just bullied your way into a nice thread, took over, and basically berated everyone in here. WTF??
This is why I don't reply to you,you can't read what's posted and who said what..You mixed in two different people's post in one lump of garbage .Try this,go back and READ what everyone said so you know I didn't say half the thing's you claim I said .

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10-13-2011 06:37 PM  7 years agoPost 44
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

well it seems like this one thread statement, that clones can be a bad decision for new hobbyists learning both flight and setup, has launched three separate issues, two that have differing opinions, and one that I think we all can agree on.

I digress...

Are clones helping or hurting the hobby? Clones, and their contribution, as well as lack of can be argued that if, in fact you are a newb there is quite a financial benefit to this outlet as they are not only inexpensive to purchase, but fix as well, surviving the purpose of a true "training" bird, a disposable starter, if you will. On the opposite side of the fence it can be argued the the clones, due to poor quality and tolerance in MFG, can render the newb frustrated as helis are a complex hobby and to add to the complexity of setup and programing a "manufacturing" curve-ball will not only sour the taste in the mouth of the newb but also leave him eventually with a bird that has poor and or inadequate flight characteristics, ultimately one he cannot learn on, which was the reason for the purchase in the first place.

The second issue I am hearing? That more advanced pilots now have what seemingly is TWO clear and separate strategies for how a newb should learn to fly. When I first started this hobby (2008) it was recommended by my LHS to join a flight club so as to be around other pilots that can help with the inevitable confusion. I took the advice and was assigned a mentor (for lack of...) who told me the only way I would be able to fly like him was to follow exactly what he did in the beginning, I agreed and he proceeded to take out a pencil and pad and write down a list of steps. Tings I had to have natural control over before moving on the next step: IE tail in hover, side in hover left then right etc. etc., forward flight didn't show up till the next page. So in this process, I was given a strong foundation to progress as well as my crashing was quite limited compared to what I have heard. The other strategy I see with the rise of the clones is the "buy cheap cause your gonna crash" mentality, which, from a economically practical approach has merit, but it feels like the basic fundamental of orientation is not only lost with the mentor, but the student as well. I have seen to often a new pilot show up with two helis, the clone which is the one he flies, and the "show bird" which he'll fly when he gets better. Although I feel this is bad practice as I believe my success with the sticks came with many things, one of which was don't take chances, take calculated steps, as I did not want my bird to go in. Having a "beginner beater" can dovelop a poor "risk reward" mentality in a new pilot, IMO.

And last, one I think we can all agree, that BladeStrike is a clone loving Drama Queen

My 2c -- John

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2011 06:37 PM  7 years agoPost 45
chopper63

rrApprentice

West Coast Chopper

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I assembled and flew a Chaos 600E for a local newbie ... I'm not impressive with quality after flying Align, MA, Rave, Mikado, Hirobo and few others. Funny thing is, he crashed the damn thing and replaced all the broken parts with Align the next time I saw him.

I do love the "coffin" the heli came with ... perfect "box" to take home the broken heli and parts.

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10-13-2011 06:45 PM  7 years agoPost 46
Mike Fortin

rrElite Veteran

USA

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I am not sponsored by "Align", in fact I love my new MA Whiplash.

I am however sponsored by Heli Wholesaler who is a distributor for the brand.

This will be my last post on the subject.

The Chaos is a blatant rip off, clone, copy, duplicate of a name brand model. This is a fact.

The parts on the Chaos are 2nd quality parts that did not make the grade to be 1st quality Align parts. If for some reason they aren't 2nd quality as I've been told, then even more reason that validates they are rip offs.

The 700N/E's that I have been flying since the day they came out have not needed any upgrades, mine are all 100% stock except for the Scorpion motor on my E. No upgrades needed.

My guess is if Chaos sold even a 1/4 of what Align has sold, there would be problems identified, the 700 has had a few minor issues in it's early stages but since then the model is pretty much bullet proof.

I've yet to see any Align 700 fall apart and these have been in the hands of some of the worlds best pilots for some time.

If you've flown an AUTHENTIC 700, then you've flown the copy. More than enough info there to draw your own conclusion.

Bladestrikes, no matter what you say or argue about the Chaos the fact still remains that it's a total rip off.

Cheers!

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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10-13-2011 06:46 PM  7 years agoPost 47
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Try this,go back and READ what everyone said so you know I didn't say half the thing's you claim I said
The two of you came on so strong, like you were tag teaming the room.

as far as re-reading, you should, I did not mention your name at all in that entry, in addition, the people here are capable of both reading the text as well as reading between the lines.

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2011 06:49 PM  7 years agoPost 48
bkervaski

rrElite Veteran

Birmingham, AL, USA

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Clones kill puppies.

Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels

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10-13-2011 07:05 PM  7 years agoPost 49
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Mike,
Never said your Sponsored by Align now did I?No.You defend what you fly or loose your Sponsor from HHS .The Align section say's different from what you say..Heck,
I asked ASJ about the G3 when they came out about the issue's they had and know what the reply was,I didn't get one LOL.Big thread about the spindle's and whole tail coming apart on the Trex 700.All the sponsored pilot's said the same as you ..Yeah,blade's flying off are minor issue's ROFL.Hay guy's,this can only kill someone or cost a few hundered in damage but it's only a minor issue lmao.There bullet proof because everyone upgrade's the "minor issue's" .I can see bearing going bad or something like that being a minor issue but it's a little more than that when your blade's or tail case come's apart .Thread is all over the place.
Well im done with this and going flying .

BTW,
Not saying Align is bad.I loved my Align heli's but for someone to make it sound like they don't have issue's is wrong and a good way to get someone hurt..

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10-13-2011 07:13 PM  7 years agoPost 50
eagleinthesmoke

rrApprentice

Burleson,Tx

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have seen to often a new pilot show up with two helis,the clone which is the one he flies,and the "show bird" which he'll fly when he gets better.
I suppose I fit this category. Im new I don't have clones but I have a raptor 50v2 to learn on and a synergy n5 for when I can actually fly.

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10-13-2011 07:16 PM  7 years agoPost 51
esmoglo

rrKey Veteran

Florida USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Not sure what planet you (clone guys) are on but NO WAY is the quality the same so don’t tell yourself the clone LIE! (group hug time).

I agree with Mike on this issue all the way I have seen the “clone guys at my field” what a lovely bunch they are. Over the years I have seen the penny pinchers spending more time repairing then flying and that’s a fact jack!

Also clone’s of an Align kit? Are you kidding me, no freaking way dude Align kits have their own issues with quality why on earth would I buy a clone “AKA” bottom of the barrel/questionable quality heli? Sorry it’s not worth my time (I value my time more than that).

I can’t see the value of the Chaos 700E rip off heli VS the real deal Align 700E. By the time you add it all up Servos, FBL system, ESC, motor, how much are you really saving with this (NO THAT MUCH AT ALL).

You have a choice buy what you like, I have learned my lesson with cheep hobby purchases the old saying “you get what you pay for” holds true with our hobby there are no short cuts spend it well or spend it twice.

One last note RC helis “ fly on money, not on lift” better to spend the $$$ first time around.

Ugly can be fixed stupid is forever!

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10-13-2011 07:19 PM  7 years agoPost 52
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You have a choice buy what you like but I have learned my lesson with cheep hobby purchases the old saying “you get what you pay for” holds true with our hobby there are no short cuts spend it or spend it twice.
Sad but true
I tried the cheap route hasn't worked for me either

" Team Protoast "

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10-13-2011 07:36 PM  7 years agoPost 53
bkervaski

rrElite Veteran

Birmingham, AL, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Not to mention if you show up at most fields with a bunch of clone garbage nobody is going to be overjoyed to help you "sort it out".

(phone rings) Somebody: Hey, I saw your name on <some forum> and <some person> gave me your number. I'm in your area and was wondering if you could help me fix <some problem>.

Me: Sure! What do you have?

Somebody: A Raptor 30, I think.

Me: Uh, ok, no problem, happy to help, come by our field, etc ...

Reality: Generally, it's a clone of an Align something, no-name blades, an E-Flight gyro, some radio system I never even heard of, and of course the free analog servos that came with the radio system I never heard of installed.

Me: How much did you pay for this?

Someone: Oh, I got a GREAT deal! $150 on eBay.

Me: Oh, ok. <now stuck in this hell of a reality and my Saturday morning completely wasted> Well, what's the problem? <as I'm cheerfully inspecting the insane amount of slop in the head>

Someone: The tail won't hold and the blades won't track.

Me: I see. <thinking that well at least this person did some homework and knows what to expect and what tracking is>

Me: <long pause, as I try to figure out the minimum amount I can do to get this guy and his junk away from me without insulting him or being a jackass>

Me: <more silence, as I contemplate if I do get it setup, this guy is going to want me to fly it, and I would rather go to the dentist than risk this thing going in or worse with me at the sticks>

Me: <even more silence, as I see in this guys eyes that he really loves his new purchase, and I feel bad for him>

Me: Ok, let's get it going.

Someone: Thanks! <big rewarding and sincere smile>

Eventually, these guys come around and buy decent stuff or they just go away. It never fails though, many Saturdays wasted on cheap junk all in the spirit of our "Hobby".

In fairness, it's not always their fault, sometimes they don't know what to buy, and that's where it becomes our responsibility.

If you're an experienced r/c heli enthusiast, you should know better than to recommend or support buying bottom of the barrel cheap clone garbage with no warranty or factory support that continues to drive the Chinese financial machine. This gear is not rewarding, its punishing.

There's enough opportunity for problems with this stuff without having to factor in which 10 year old working his 9th 12-hour day in a row was half asleep that day in the factory.

Don't buy clones.

Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels

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10-13-2011 07:51 PM  7 years agoPost 54
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The cheap way into R/C heli flying is to stay a generation or even two behind the supposed "cutting edge" products and buy 2nd hand. You could put together a Hirobo Sceadu, a Raptor 50 or even a Vibe 50 for peanuts. Use a JR 770 gyro or Spartan 760 with some middle of the road servos, a NiMH battery and a hyper 50 on any number of mufflers. Cheap, cheap, cheap compared to the "must haves" of today.

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10-13-2011 07:57 PM  7 years agoPost 55
Stephen Born

rrElite Veteran

USA

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I have never had to upgrade my T-Rex 700e. No KDE upgrades, nothing. I love my Align birds, and in retrospect I would have not changed any of my past purchases.

NOW, just because someone likes Chaos more than Align, or someone like name brand heli more than clones is fine. To each his own. No sense in arguing over it. Lets just share our opinions and be done done with it.

NO MATTER WHAT WE FLY, WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME HELI HOBBY!

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10-13-2011 07:57 PM  7 years agoPost 56
rchelichop

rrVeteran

seeya

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A friend of mine does that MartyH, and he flies better than bladestrikes any day with 'old' equip

Not to mention, I don't know how a vid of some mild high 3D is supposed to prove it superior. If a flight of 3D flying proves something superior then Bert flying the 700E in AHS recently blows the doors off the chaos.

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10-13-2011 08:30 PM  7 years agoPost 57
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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^^^ +1

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2011 08:30 PM  7 years agoPost 58
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Much contradictory BS in this thread. I guess I just can't get away from it.
Anyway,
Sure, they look the same. However, when you look at the linkages, the rotor head, tail casings, and gears....they are not the same.
The man speaks truth. I will speak to what I have owned. 2 EXI, 2 Align and 1 Mikado. The issues I have had with EXI (Don't know about Caos and will not speculate and generalize to all clones) is that they work, but main and autorotation gears warp badly (yes worse than aligns 450), Machining is rough around the edges (parts still fit with less tolerance), bearings are loose with inner races wobbling around, and the aluminum on my 450 pro swash plate is soft thus stripping out when I went to re-tighten the elevator ball link. I've replaced almost all parts on my 70$ EXI 450 pro with Align stuff to try and reduce the vibs that my miniVbar is picking up. Literally, the only thing still EXI is the frame, boom, and canopy studs. The vibs are greatly reduced so now I can go up on the gain and the tail is more solid (not as good as I want) in the air with a Futaba 9650 on the tail. I replaced with a high speed MKS tail servo yesterday and with one flight it is now rock solid.

The thing about lower quality helis (in my experience with EXI) is that all those loose tolerances add up to vibes and play in the system that make you have to lower the gain and have less solid tail (I guess would affect other axis as well on FBL).

High Voltage just works better

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10-13-2011 08:47 PM  7 years agoPost 59
S Crutchfield

rrNovice

Arkadelphia,Ar. usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

HK- 500 T-rex clone
I would like to share some first hand knowledge on this particular heli. The HK500 comes with some very cheap electonics and although I got some service out of them, within a short time they started to wearout, causing crash after crash.The tail housing was so poorly built,that the tail gears were barely meshed, and would strip out repeatedly.As you know there is no adjustment here.
It was'nt until I had replaced virtually every part on the heli with T-Rex parts,and changed all the electronics, that I finally got the dependability I was looking for. And I might add, at a cost 3 times higher than a quality bird would have cost!
I can't speak for any other kits, and I'm sure that others have had better luck with their HKs than I did, But I learned a valuable lesson the hard way. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! CHEAPER COST MORE IN THE LONG HAUL!
My advise is to buy the very best that you can afford.

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10-13-2011 08:52 PM  7 years agoPost 60
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

just goes to show that all clones are nothing but a bunch of chaos.

hehe

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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