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T-REX 700 › New Kde Direct motor vs. old Kde Neu Motor
10-12-2011 02:09 AM  6 years agoPost 1
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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Ok looking for some opinions here. 2 year ago I built a 700n Conversion for a cutomer. All Kde direct part incuding the monster 1917 N42 Version of Steve Neu's motor Kde had made for them and a Castle 160. It is INSANE. Zero bogging and snap like a 450 on crack. I also just completed a 700e Build with the latest KDE motor the outrunner they had castle build for them. This 700 also has a Castle 160 however this one is the updated ICE2 version. The old Neu Inrunner was rated at 8000+ watts and the new outrunner is rated for 10,000+ so the outrunner should be more powerful. Running them both at the field this weekend the older 700n conversion was much more impressive. A few more details, The 700n inrunner destroys main gear over 80% throttle so its kept there at a flat throttle. The 700E outrunner was being run at 100% flat throttle. One last detail the 700n is Vbar FBL while the 700e outrunner has its flybar still. So why Is the Inrunner so much more powerful???
Thanks guys

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10-12-2011 03:04 AM  6 years agoPost 2
w12martin

rrVeteran

Chengdu, Sichuan, China

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If I'm not wrong, the new KDE motor develops 10000W runing 16S, not 12S

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10-12-2011 04:44 AM  6 years agoPost 3
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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Ohh see your right it is capable of 16S so really were not getting all we can out of it. Guess that why it's only at 124 degrees after 5 minutes of pitch pumping.

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10-12-2011 04:16 PM  6 years agoPost 4
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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So I'm sure this isn't 100% accurate but I did some quick math and if the new outrunner can do 10,000 watts at 16S then it's probly around 7,500 watts on 12S. Which means that the old inrunner is actually the more powerful motor when used on 12S. Also it seems like 12S is the only option anyways because I cant find a 16s esc and I don't know how you'd have to configure the packs to fit in the battery slots anyways. I kinda feel cheated I mean when you look at the specs for the outrunner it's like wow and even more powerful motor than the old Neu but its almost false advertising because it can only make that power at a voltage most can't achieve.

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10-12-2011 04:49 PM  6 years agoPost 5
MU300PILOT

rrApprentice

Florida

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This is from KDE on the other website.

No, you can push the motor to 10,000W+ and higher with 12S setups. I just got an e-mail from a happy customer running the motor on a 12S, 800-class setup and he's been seeing spikes near 12,000W. I don't know what the actual limit of the motor is, as we haven't found it yet, but the motor is built to handle anything the current technology (ESCs and LiPos) can throw at it.

The true performance gains of a motor is when you can input the lowest amount of power, and still generate the torque and power to the rotorhead you are looking for. With some of the governor optimizations we've been testing with Castle Creations on the XF brushless motors, we've been able to increase the efficiency of the power transfer such that such high peaks are not required to provide high-torque output to the rotorhead. Some great new advances are on the way...

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=319288&page=17

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10-12-2011 05:29 PM  6 years agoPost 6
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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Well when I originally set it up I did so with it in gov mode with a
12t pinion. The first few flights in gov mode were just awful. At 2000rpms the motor seems roughly equal to the stock motor and the tail performance was awful, it simply would not hold kicking out about a foot in hard climbs(it has a BLS251 and Spartan quark so that is NOT the problem). We decided to take it out of gov mode. We started at flat 70% and quickly worked up to flat 100% throttle. With it running a flat throttle the tail held perfectly which proves to me the gov doing all that jumping around with the throttle trying to hold a headspeed just makes it impossible for the gyro to do it's job as well as possible. Now with it running 100% flat the power was Definetly much better than stock but on hard collective inputs (13 degrees pitch)the head still bogged and lost speed, and that's with the motor giving everything it has so trying a 13 would only make it bog worse. I think removing the flybar would help close the gap between the outrunner and the inrunner but even then my gut feeling is the old Neu motor was the better unit.

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10-12-2011 06:27 PM  6 years agoPost 7
MU300PILOT

rrApprentice

Florida

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Hmmmmm,

I'm running Gov mode(1800rpm) on my rex800. I am running the 3gx and I don't have any problems with the tail and I have plenty of power has not bog down yet. Maybe you have a different problem. ARe you running it on 8kv or as an outrunner? Helidirect shows to run it on 8kv.

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10-12-2011 07:10 PM  6 years agoPost 8
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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I think you mean pwm but yes 8 that is where I set it. I actually talked with Patrick at Kde about the settings and used the ones he specified. Your running 3gx flybarless and our machine has a flybar. I think if we got rid of the flybar it would be much much better.

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