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HomeScaleAircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › Metal Blades in the UK
10-11-2011 03:32 PM  6 years agoPost 1
NickC

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Leicestershire UK

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Its Official !

I just received the email I've been waiting for since the 8th Sept (this gives you an idea of how fast the BMFA work )

Metal Blades can now be used in the UK with the following proviso's

1 A minimum airframe weight of 7kg
2 Origin of blade (currently this means M Blades only)
3 Non aerobatic use
4 A twelve month review by the BMFA Technical Council

and the most important one if your planning to use metal blades

5 Individual permission granted from the CAA via the BMFA.

So anyone wanting to use M Blades and be insured via the BMFA insurance must in the first instance apply to the BMFA head office at Chacksfield House marking your corespondence for the attention of Manny Williamson who will supply you with an application form.

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10-11-2011 08:19 PM  6 years agoPost 2
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Interesting twist on the blade length restriction we have in the US. Make the heli heavy so you have to use big blades.................

I'm not sure that works, but congratulations, you have your foot in the door and M-blades will on the scene fully legal. Great news!

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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10-11-2011 08:37 PM  6 years agoPost 3
payne1967

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uk

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its a big thank you to
nick in the uk
peter in the usa (your always welcome back in the sunny uk)
for all the hard work that they have put into the use of metal blades

i'm sure there will be others that put time and effort into this who we don't know the names of so a thank you to them also

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10-12-2011 01:50 AM  6 years agoPost 4
darrens

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United Kingdom

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Absolutely agree with Dave, thanks to all those who made this possible.

He who dies with the most toys is the winner!

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10-12-2011 06:50 AM  6 years agoPost 5
Double Decks

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Poole Dorset

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metal blades
Are M Blades in Germany the only place we can buy these?

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10-12-2011 07:56 AM  6 years agoPost 6
NickC

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Leicestershire UK

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Peter
The weight reason was to allow the use of metal blades on the newer smaller rotor turbine models such as the vario pht 2 powered alouette II which come under the 1800 mm dia.size.

Double Decks contact modtron on here for UK supply.

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10-13-2011 06:40 PM  6 years agoPost 7
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Metal blades /BMFA
As I have owned metal blades for a few years now
I made an enquiry to Manny Williamson as to when the BMFA were going to inform the card carrying members of the BMFA (not all read RR)
Also to send me the correct paperwork
So untill your blades are registered, you are not insured, with the BMFA
This is his reply
Peter R

Peter
Thank you for your Email in relation to metal helicopter blades.
We have indeed consulted with the CAA and following a proposal to BMFA Full Council arrived at a position permitting limited use of metal blades.
At this stage the paperwork and application forms are not quite complete but I will send you a set as soon as they are available (within the next two weeks).
There will be an announcement in a forthcoming issue of BMFA News and as soon as all of the information is available there will be a notice in the News section of the BMFA website.
I hope this is of assistance.
With kind regards
Manny Williamson

Development Officer
Tel: 0116 2440028
Fax: 0116 2440645
email: admin@bmfa.org

The Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers Limited

T/A The British Model Flying Association

A company limited by guarantee. Registered in England Number 457067
Registered office Chacksfield House, 31 St Andrew's Road, Leicester, LE2 8RE

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02-04-2012 03:31 PM  6 years agoPost 8
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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STILL NO METAL BLADE USE IN THE UK
Reading the latest Model Helicopter World, John White, UK Vario is able to supply metal blades
Strange my latest communication with BMFA states that there is still some problems, and have been with the CAA since before Christmas
So what is the problem now?
And how much longer have we to wait?
Peter R

Their reply

Peter
Thank you for your further Email in relation to metal helicopter blades.
Unfortunately there have been a few unforeseen delays in the process due to additional requirements from the CAA, I am currently working through the final steps with them and would hope to start accepting applications in the near future.

All of the forms and paperwork are ready at this end, so as soon as I receive final approval from the CAA there should be no delay in processing the first applications.
With kind regards
Manny Williamson
Development Officer
Tel: 0116 2440028
Fax: 0116 2440645
email: admin@bmfa.org
The Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers Limited
T/A The British Model Flying Association
A company limited by guarantee. Registered in England Number 457067
Registered office Chacksfield House, 31 St Andrew's Road, Leicester, LE2 8RE

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02-04-2012 04:25 PM  6 years agoPost 9
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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Peter,

I saw the mention of the metal blades now available from Vario (Jung manufacture)

Note the they are only for 22mm blade holders !

If I believe what I understand, then these blades will not be accepted for use in the UK until they have been checked and passed for use - but then knowing how slow and undependable the BMFA are proving to be, then anything could happen.

Personally, I feel this whole situation is now becoming a joke.
I openly started to supply these items after having been told by the BMFA that it was good to do so - that was late September 2011.
Even the BMFA announced this change last year in their own publication and it's still not yet fully sorted !

To those who have already purchased blades and found that they are still waiting to be able to use them - I can only suggest you bombard the BMFA to get there act together asap.

modtron
Oxford UK

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02-04-2012 04:31 PM  6 years agoPost 10
NickC

rrApprentice

Leicestershire UK

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Peter If you read the email you have copied there is no mention of problems, just delays, so be patient we have waited this long so a little while longer won't hurt.

The CAA is the hold up at the moment, just before Christmas they requested more detail on how the BMFA would be monitoring the use of metal blades. This resulted in another meeting between myself and Manny Williamson which we managed to arrange before xmas but the CAA then went on holiday untill the second week of Jan and they, like the BMFA, don't seem to have found there way out of 1st gear when it comes to "changes".
Between Manny and myself we put together some details for the CAA to look at.
Manny has spoken to the CAA who were quite happy with what we had suggested and we are now waiting for conformation back from them.
In my mind this is just a simple email or letter but as with all things CAA it takes time.
I'm on the case to the point of annoying Manny with several phone calls each week, but its out of his hands at the moment.

With regard to Vario advertising metal blades, they, as of this moment in time have not supplied any form of documentation or certification from the blade manufacturer and as such they will not be granted an exemption for there use untill they do so.

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02-04-2012 05:58 PM  6 years agoPost 11
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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stiring the fire
Nick, Nigel, I appreciate you are both on the case
As for it being a problem, for me it is a problem, not being able to fly with metal blades, that have been hanging around for over a year, especially when Manny Williamson, BMFA said in his e-mail to me that he would be sending out the relevent paper work in 2 weeks that was in October last year
Peter R

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02-04-2012 06:51 PM  6 years agoPost 12
Hank79

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Brisbane, Australia

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Is there any advantage to using metal blades, such as a more authentic sound?,

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02-05-2012 03:46 PM  6 years agoPost 13
NickC

rrApprentice

Leicestershire UK

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As for it being a problem, for me it is a problem, not being able to fly with metal blades, that have been hanging around for over a year
If you chose to buy them over a year ago then that's your problem.
Over a year ago there was no mention of them being made legal in the UK so you jumped the gun.

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02-05-2012 05:30 PM  6 years agoPost 14
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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legal in the UK?
Nick, The only people to say we could not use metal blades was the BMFA,, this was long before metal rotor blades came on the scene for helicopters, and was with reference to aeroplane propellors
This again from the BMFA, we would not be covered by BMFA brokered insurance if we did use metal rotor blades
Nothing against using metal rotor blades, as long as the pilot was insured to fly with them, you of all people should know this was the case, because Matthius was flying with metal rotor blades af your Red Lodge fly in 2010, well over a year ago
I fly off private ground and the owner of one of these fields has no objection to the use of metal rotor blades,it only becomes a problem with flying at BMFA affiliated clubs
Who said it was ilegal, the CAA have only been involved with metal rotor blades, since the BMFA got involved, the BMFA do not make the law they only advise
When the CAA, finally make a desision, will it mean that all blades not certificated will be banned
I have moulds to make smaller rotor blades, when I did make my own blades, when I flew useing them I was covered by the BMFA arranged insurance, this without any proof of suitability for the purpose I was using them for
Of all the millions( I guess) of helicopters flying with copmosite blades, will they automatically be banned because they do not have test certification, I think not, so why only metal rotor blades, Because the BMFA got involved
Peter R
Flying helicopters before the BMFA took over the hobby

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02-05-2012 06:38 PM  6 years agoPost 15
NickC

rrApprentice

Leicestershire UK

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Who said it was ilegal, the CAA have only been involved with metal rotor blades, since the BMFA got involved, the BMFA do not make the law they only advise
No one has ever said it was illegal, no one has ever said you cannot use them, but due to the fact that the majority of model flyers are insured via the BMFA that has been the reason you cannot use them and be insured by the BMFA.

Maybe you should read the CAA document CAP 658 Chapter 3 page 6 2.1
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP658.PDF

Cap 658 is a set of guideline's set out by the CAA and they are just that, guidelines, hence the reason you have already quoted that Matthias was allowed to fly at my flyin. The guidelines published by the CAA are written on advisement of the BMFA so the BMFA has always been involved in the restricted use of metal blades, its nothing new.
When the CAA, finally make a desision, will it mean that all blades not certificated will be banned
All metal blades not certified will need to be proven, by either a form of certification from their manufacturer or from a set of test results similar to the one that Peter Wales had done on M Blades which are the ones I used in the application to the BMFA.
I totally agree that there are no test certs for all CF/GF blades and for that matter most parts of a model helicopter and this was one of the strong points in the argument to allow the use of metal blades.
As I have said before the BMFA/CAA are quite old fashioned and are opposed to change, a set of test results was one way of tipping the balance in our favour. You cannot image the flack I have fended off sitting in meetings trying to convince people that a metal blade is no less safe to use than a CF/GF one. If I had a quid for every sharp in take of breath then I'd be able to buy a set of M Blades.
The deciesion has already been made, its just the way the blades will be monitored that is still under discussion.
Because the BMFA got involved
If the BMFA weren't involved then your metal blades would still be on the shelf this time next year.Unless of course you want to sort out your own insurance cover and I'm guessing it will be a bit more than the 20 odd quid you pay the BMFA.
I fly off private ground and the owner of one of these fields has no objection to the use of metal rotor blades,it only becomes a problem with flying at BMFA affiliated clubs
There's your answer then, fly at your private site and everyone will be happy

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02-28-2012 12:29 PM  6 years agoPost 16
NickC

rrApprentice

Leicestershire UK

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For everyone who has been patiently waiting, at last the wait is over !

Final letter came from the CAA today and for anyone who has requested an application form for the use of metal blades their form should be on the way from the BMFA in the next couple of days.

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02-28-2012 02:04 PM  6 years agoPost 17
paul999

rrApprentice

ilford essex

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as hank79 has asked what is the advantage of using metal blades,iv been told that they just look better when static as in they have blade droop,im asking as to use in a scale application i.e. would using them on my ec145 have any advantage to carbon blades

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02-28-2012 06:12 PM  6 years agoPost 18
modtron

rrKey Veteran

Oxford. UK

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I can only comment on using M-Blades....

Very thin section with highly efficient profile which produces more lift.
Ideal for large heavy scale machines.

modtron
Oxford UK

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02-29-2012 01:14 PM  6 years agoPost 19
PETER ROB

rrElite Veteran

Devon UK

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Good news
Just got an answer to my latest e-mail to the BMFA
Peter R

Peter
Thank you for your further Email.

We are finally sorted with the metal blade trial, just let me know how many forms you require and I will send them through.
With kind regards
Manny Williamson
Development Officer
Tel: 0116 2440028
Fax: 0116 2440645
email: admin@bmfa.org

The Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers Limited

T/A The British Model Flying Association

A company limited by guarantee. Registered in England Number 457067
Registered office Chacksfield House, 31 St Andrew's Road, Leicester, LE2 8RE

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02-29-2012 01:30 PM  6 years agoPost 20
Double Decks

rrApprentice

Poole Dorset

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Metal Blades
Hi Just recived a email from Manny. Good News

Alan

Thank you for your Email.

We are just about to start a trial period with metal blades in order that the current ban can be lifted once sufficient information has been collated.

There will be no problem in using metal blades; you will just need to fill in a form to register their use with us once you have purchased them.

Just let me know if you need the forms sending out to you.

With kind regards

Manny Williamson
Development Officer

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