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› Tail issues...problem solved!...
10-10-2011 05:21 PM  7 years agoPost 1
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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My Protos 500 has some interesting tail problems. In a hover, the tail acts normal. Turn left, it turns and stops fast, same for the left side. However, punch the throttle to full and watch the tail kick to the right, nose left. If I fly normal (not fast or slow) inverted backwards, the tail will kick-out.

So far it seems as I punch the throttle, the tail will kick-out. There is no drag in the linkage (from servo to the tail), this has been checked many times by 3 other pilots. The tail servo is a MKS 8910A+. The tail servo center position pulse length is set to 760 usec “Red”, and the tail servo frequency is set to 560 Hz “Blue”.

I tried the Futaba 5 arm horn and now the 4 arm horn farthest hole out. Am I going the wrong way? We have tried the tail torque precompensation (RevoMix), both “Red” and Red flashing”, same problem. It does seem to get better with each try, but become interesting trying to fly when it acts up.

Is there something I’m missing? Could it possibly be the servo? Or the Beast X? I’m out of things to try. I haven’t had this problem with my Compass 3D+. I've tried different batteries all fully charged, and the belt is tight front and back.

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10-10-2011 05:30 PM  7 years agoPost 2
alexf1852

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Inverness, FL - U.S.

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First, make sure the ball is on the 10.5mm or 13.5mm hole of the servo arm. Try 10.5mm first and make sure that the servo horn can move to both ends without locking to one side or the other.

Then after you adjust your gains so that you don't get wag, you will need to adjust your torque precomp. If your tail is kicking out on punch outs, try increasing the torque precomp. Also make sure you have it set in the correct direction.

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10-10-2011 05:52 PM  7 years agoPost 3
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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If your tail is kicking out on punch outs, try increasing the torque precomp. Also make sure you have it set in the correct direction.
??? Do you mean the "Setting the swashplate sensor directions" or "Setting the pirouette optimization direction"?

During punch outs, or quick throttle pumps, the tail turns right...nose left.

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10-10-2011 05:59 PM  7 years agoPost 4
CX1

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Canada

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We have tried the tail torque precompensation (RevoMix), both “Red” and Red flashing”, same problem
Revo mix is not used ever
what gyro are you using ?

have you tried setting up in rate mode ?

" Team Protoast "

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10-10-2011 06:56 PM  7 years agoPost 5
Funknrock

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San Marcos, CA

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this sounds like a gain setting to me.

also, i have found that in normal you don't always get the right head speed for aggressive fling (throttle pumps). going from slower speeds to fast will cause head torque to overtake the tail. it is better, even for the beginner to fly in idle up. you will get better response and in windier days the heli will be easier to land.

My crashes are cooler than your flying! ;^)

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10-10-2011 07:11 PM  7 years agoPost 6
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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Revo mix is not used ever
what gyro are you using ?
Beast X Ver. 3

The tail torque precompensation (RevoMix) programming is in the Beast X, "F" page 71.
this sounds like a gain setting to me.

also, i have found that in normal you don't always get the right head speed for aggressive fling (throttle pumps). going from slower speeds to fast will cause head torque to overtake the tail. it is better, even for the beginner to fly in idle up. you will get better response and in windier days the heli will be easier to land.
This does sound like a gain issue or a holding issue. Not a beginner here, been flying heli's over 20 years. Doesn't matter what head speed I'm in, normal, idle 1, 2.

I'm wondering if the Beast X software has issues or it is a servo problem. Thought about installing version 2.xx. I had a Beast X unit for my Compass 3D+ upgraded at IRCHA (this year) with version 3.0, then was told it was something like 2.9.5.

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10-10-2011 07:38 PM  7 years agoPost 7
alexf1852

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Inverness, FL - U.S.

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I'm running BeastX with V3 firmware on two Protos 500 with BLS251 tail servos. I forget how much precomp I have but the heli flies great. The tail behaves very nice. No kick out during punch outs. So I don't think your BEastX is at fault here. I would try moving the servo horn in to the 13.5mm hole or the 10.5mm hole.

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10-10-2011 07:40 PM  7 years agoPost 8
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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...moving the servo horn in to the 13.5mm hole or the 10.5mm hole.
I'll try that.

What "comp" level do you have your's set to?

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10-10-2011 07:51 PM  7 years agoPost 9
alexf1852

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Inverness, FL - U.S.

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I'll post my settings later this evening when I get home.

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10-10-2011 08:27 PM  7 years agoPost 10
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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Ok

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10-10-2011 09:26 PM  7 years agoPost 11
Funknrock

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San Marcos, CA

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sorry, didn't notice your 'Veteran' status. but it does sound more like a gain issue. i'm running a BeastX V2 on 4 helis (Trex 500/600 and Protos 500/450) and haven't had this issue...

Actually, i just remembered that i DID have a similar issue that was mechanical. my tail push rod came unglued at one end and DID cause the tail to blow out (Protos 450, but the tail push rod assembles the same). it wasn't the first thing i looked at and, unfortunately, didn't find it until after a crash. i kept adjusting the gain and testing assuming everything else was good. if finally came apart completely (throttle pumps to see if the gain adjustments worked) and went into the 'death spin'.

My crashes are cooler than your flying! ;^)

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10-11-2011 12:11 AM  7 years agoPost 12
rcnut

rrElite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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I have the Beast X on my Compass 3D+...with no issues!

I checked my push rod (carbon fiber) to the tail...it's glued well, solid. Thinking maybe the 15 tooth pinion is slipping? Something is not quite right.

I'll find it eventually!

Team Miniature Aircraft
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10-11-2011 12:29 AM  7 years agoPost 13
CX1

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Canada

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Thinking maybe the 15 tooth pinion is slipping?
that could cause what you're seeing

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10-11-2011 01:44 AM  7 years agoPost 14
alexf1852

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Inverness, FL - U.S.

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Keeping in mind that I have a full size tail servo, my tail settings are:
Tail gain: in heading lock mode @ H.

Parameters:
C = Red
D = Red
F = low (red flashing or blue flashing depending on tail servo direction. Tail blades should turn inward when applying pos. or neg. pitch.)

Hope this helps.

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10-13-2011 03:57 AM  7 years agoPost 15
Anton123

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Canada

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Hope you figure it out!

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10-13-2011 01:08 PM  7 years agoPost 16
Ecaf

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West Dundee, IL

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So I helped Ray with his heli on Sunday. He came to my house and we went over it and the tail looking for issues and solutions. Since I have a Protos and have been flying it with the BeastX w/o issue for a year, I was totally baffled by his problems.

After we checked his linkage/server/tail setup (all dead on!) we took it out and observed his tail kicking 90 degrees on a pitch pump.

So this is what we did:

1 - tighten the belt, it was a new one so it stretched a little. We took the slack out.
2 - Upped his tail gain, got 3 more points out of it.
3 - Set up RevoMix on the BeastX

Taking it out in the back yard, it worked great. Stops were hard and no bounce back. Pitch pumps also were perfect. I sent him on his way and he went back home to fly, and low and behold it was back again.

Via IM, I told him my only other thoughts were that the main pinion is slipping (which he confirmed it was) or the tail shaft was slipping in the tail gear (he is running the plastic one).

He ordered some new pinions and a new shaft for the motor. After he gets it installed I think he should be fine.

Shame that its taken so long. I for the life of my couldn't believe it since my Protos is perfect with the same gyro/tail servo.

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10-13-2011 06:35 PM  7 years agoPost 17
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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I should have my new / replacement pinion gear this Friday. So Saturday will be interesting, see if this fixes the issue. If not, then I'll try the tail servo.

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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10-14-2011 04:05 PM  7 years agoPost 18
rcnut

rrElite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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I decided to try the 14 tooth pinion, as the 4mm hub arrived the day before.

Beginning of the first flight with the new gear was flawless. I was able to perform almost any maneuver I wanted without any problems from the tail.

During a stationary aileron roll, the tail hunted, meaning too sensitive. So I landed, backed the tail gain down 2 points, and went back into a hover. This time the tail was no longer locked-in like seconds before. So I landed again and returned the tail gain back to where it was, but no luck, the tail won't hold during pitch pumping.

My problem has to be electrical in nature. And the only things it can be...servo, Beast X, and or the receiver.

I have a brand new replacement Savox tail servo. So last night I removed the MKS DS 8910A+ servo and installed the Savox SH-1290 servo. I still need to program the Beast X for the servo, center the servo and horn, and set the end points. So maybe Saturday it will be ready for test flight.

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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10-17-2011 03:33 PM  7 years agoPost 19
rcnut

rrElite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Well this last week has been a wash. Rain for three days followed by high winds for another 3 days.

However...I did manage to find what the problem was with the Protos!!! It was the tail servo. I tried replacing the pinion gear, but didn't fix it. I tried using a longer arm servo horn, but that didn't work either. Deep down I suspected it was electronic related, or possibly in the setup menu.

Nope, it was the servo. The last test flight cinched my suspicions when the first flight with the new pinion gear was installed. The first 3 minutes of flight was flawless. Not one single issue with the tail what's so ever! That tail was rock solid. But during a stationary roll, the tail gain was set too high. When I landed, readjusted the gain and popped back into the air, the tail wouldn't hold, acting very erratic.

So now it's returning everything back to the original setup. I'll send this new servo back for warranty.

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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10-24-2011 07:17 PM  7 years agoPost 20
rcnut

rrElite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Now that I found what was causing the tail problems with my Protos 500...it was time to let this little heli rip up the sky! On Saturday I put in 3 flights That totally rocked!

This time the tail is rock solid!!! I did everything I know how to do and this little powerhouse asked for more! As I started to settle in with this heli, I added some Expo to the Elevator (+10%), Ailerons (+10&), and Rudder (-15%). However, even at -15% Expo on the rudder, it is still slow for my taste. I'll keep adjusting the Expo and end point adjustment until I get right feel.

At about 2,700 RPM (I'm estimating) head speed, the battery packs are lasting 5 to 5-1/2 minutes. I'm "sucking" around 72-82% out of the packs (2600 and 3300 packs). So I think I'll set the timer to 5 minutes.

Sunday I took my Protos to church to show off to our technical director (he's a tech geek like myself). I've been promising to show him one of my T450's but something always came up and haven't had the chance. Well this Sunday was different. Don looked over every aspect of the Protos, and asked 20 questions...of course.

Then I gave him a demo flight. By the way I attracted a small crowd doing this, and of course I let it rip even faster and harder. Oh and yes much closer to the ground...asphalt no less! Well nothing bad happened and everyone liked the flight. Don was impressed and we went into power to weight calculations, power consumptions, etc.

I have to say as winter approches, I will be putting in more flights with little heli (the sun is up after church and the parking lot is plenty big). So now it is about getting flight time in.

Time to test other battery brands...

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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