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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Motor Efficiency
08-05-2011 12:01 AM  6 years agoPost 1
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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As we are always learning, I have figured out another factor to electrical motors. That would be the "effiency rating" factor. I have been looking at these motors like Neu which don't seem to have a high max wattage. Aside this observation, others seem to swear by them. Most motors seem to be in the range of 85-90% efficiency. Between that 5 percent, is it really a noticable difference? So what differences do you see or feel. As you all know, hese motors for 600 can be quite costly. I personally don't have the funds to try them all out.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-05-2011 12:34 AM  6 years agoPost 2
Heli-on

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Southern Cali, CA - USA

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What I see with efficiency is how well the motor is made. Align motors are made with the cheapest, lightest materials possible. Take any motor that has higher efficiency and open it up, you can just tell its a better quality. It all translates into more torque output per watt of energy. Almost like the flimsy motor is trying to give you the same power the sturdy one is capable of, but burns it up as heat trying.

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08-05-2011 12:37 AM  6 years agoPost 3
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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I personally don't have the funds to try them all out.
Tell me about it. Before, with nitro, you either got an OS or a YS, and played with one or two pipes. Then, you messed around with different blades. That covered most of the variables.

Now, with electrics, there are now infinitely more variables to setup a power system. So many manufacturers, so many motors within them, and then so many KV variations...and then you still have to mess with blades, pinions, and even batteries.

Electric in my mind is superior, but it can be daunting to find that setup you are looking for.

Erich

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08-05-2011 12:57 AM  6 years agoPost 4
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Electric in my mind is superior, but it can be daunting to find that setup you are looking for.
That is what I am figuring out. The deeper I dig into it trying to understand it, the more variables that come out as a result.
It all translates into more torque output per watt of energy.
So basically like the Neu motor may not seem high in watts output, but have higher torque?

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-05-2011 01:18 AM  6 years agoPost 5
robv

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SoCal

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So what differences do you see or feel.
I'm not an expert. There are many variables in the equation like gearing, battery, blades, flying style, etc, etc...

In terms of motor efficiency and the deviation within that 5%, I don't think you will see or feel any difference. In fact I don't think anyone can claim they see or feel any difference.

You just know that the motor with higher efficiency will waste less power.

Team JR | Gens Ace | YS Engines | Scorpion Motors | Pure Tech

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08-05-2011 04:09 AM  6 years agoPost 6
RCSavager

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Topeka, KS

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When talking about efficiency keep in mind the other end of the equation. If a motor is touted to be 90% efficient then there is still 10% going to resistance. Resistance being the heat created when you temp your motor. That 10% is 1/10th of all wattage used at a given time. The motor may demand 5000 watts but the ESC has to pump 5500 watts because of the 10% loss. So that's 500 watts of heat. Ever grabbed a 60 watt light bulb just after you shut it off? Same concept. Scorpion is famous for running up to 200F but that plays hell on your other electronics from the heat stuck under the canopy. Efficiency pays for itself two-fold down the road when your batteries last longer not having to push 10% more than you're actually using, servos/etc last longer not being baked in the frame during flight and most importantly bearings near that source of heat. Scorpions get crazy high temps so their bearings last for **** because of it. Doesn't make them bad motors, you can just see/feel that lost efficiency when you scorch yourself on the motor can after a flight. Easy to see the loss when it's a powerful motor. That 10% adds up quick. Remember that light bulb temp and it's only 60 watts. We're talking ~500+ watts.

Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.

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08-05-2011 07:21 AM  6 years agoPost 7
Terrabit

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Seattle, WA - USA

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The Kontronik Pyro 700-45 in my 700E is rated to 91% efficiency. It's also rated at 100A continuous. That's 4,440W. And frankly, it's not the most powerful motor out there. But it never gets above 110F, and it's easier on the rest of my power system too. And, it has plenty of power for my purposes.

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08-05-2011 08:11 AM  6 years agoPost 8
sks

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london

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it probably has been considered and it might happen: they might have to make fan and enclosing fan shroud arrangements for the electrics soon if heat is going to be an issue.

don't the pyro motors have cooling fan blades at the bottom? This creates airflow from top to bottom to cool the motor substantially. Scorpion ought to follow the same route too.

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08-05-2011 01:53 PM  6 years agoPost 9
Heli-on

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Southern Cali, CA - USA

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I know the Neu motors have fans. The cases could be upwards of 1/2" shorter without them.

The Scorp outrunner cases have holes that are someone fan-like and they do claim they move air.

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08-05-2011 03:12 PM  6 years agoPost 10
Terrabit

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Seattle, WA - USA

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Most outrunners have some sort of fan integrated into the upper can. Also, the can itself is ribbed to increase surface area thereby allowing it to dissipate heat more efficiently.

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08-05-2011 03:23 PM  6 years agoPost 11
LaurenceGough

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UK

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Scorpion motors use like centrifugal style fans (probably the incorrect word to use).

That being said they don't seem to shift that much air when you stick your hand near them..

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08-07-2011 12:45 AM  6 years agoPost 12
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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don't put your hand near them...

Does any one here know what is the starting point for calculating your system, and what specs to look for / target when putting together a system??

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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08-07-2011 12:51 AM  6 years agoPost 13
robv

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SoCal

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helixangle,

I would start with the type of flying I do or want to do with the heli.

Team JR | Gens Ace | YS Engines | Scorpion Motors | Pure Tech

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08-07-2011 12:55 AM  6 years agoPost 14
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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middle road pilot, all orientation, strong transition, never in a hover, big air to deck work.

Trex 550.

was looking at scorpion, more interested in hacker, could never figure which one to pull trigger on so became a dead issue as I didn't want to waste money.

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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08-07-2011 01:45 AM  6 years agoPost 15
Heli-on

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Southern Cali, CA - USA

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This will give you some ideas: : http://www.ecalc.ch/helicalc_e.htm?castle

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08-07-2011 06:16 AM  6 years agoPost 16
robv

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SoCal

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middle road pilot, all orientation, strong transition, never in a hover, big air to deck work.
helixangle,

LOL... Sounds like you should know what you need for that 550!

I would look at a 12S setup. A scorpion 4025-630kv would fit nicely in a 550 with just minimal modifications.

Team JR | Gens Ace | YS Engines | Scorpion Motors | Pure Tech

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08-07-2011 06:32 AM  6 years agoPost 17
ShuRugal

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Killeen, TX

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That 10% is 1/10th of all wattage used at a given time. The motor may demand 5000 watts but the ESC has to pump 5500 watts because of the 10% loss. So that's 500 watts of heat. Ever grabbed a 60 watt light bulb just after you shut it off? Same concept
Slight mis-statement here. 90% efficiency doesn't mean that a motor drawing 5000 watts causes ESC to pump 5500, it means a motor drawing 5000 watts is only turning 4500 watts into torque, the other 500 are going out as heat.

a 60-watt lightbulb gets hot for an entirely different reason. incandescent lights get hot because roughly 85 to 95 percent of the light they emit is in the infra-red band. Your electric motor gets hot because as the coils heat up the heat is conducted through the stator/bearings/shaft/rotor. IE: a light bulb gets hot because the filament is radiating most of its energy in the IR band, whereas a motor gets hot because it's in contact with hot windings.

AMA 700159

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08-07-2011 06:59 AM  6 years agoPost 18
RCSavager

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Topeka, KS

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touche

Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.

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08-07-2011 12:07 PM  6 years agoPost 19
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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@ robv...

wanted to keep it 6s

Nice setup... what mah are the packs, what are the "minimal modifications"

do you have a video of that monster?

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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08-07-2011 01:03 PM  6 years agoPost 20
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Most motors seem to be in the range of 85-90% efficiency.Between that 5 percent, is it really a noticable difference? So what differences do you see or feel
No.

You will only notice the differences with a DATA Logger...that and less flying time.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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