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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › optimum cyclic pitch for flybarless
08-03-2011 02:38 AM  7 years agoPost 1
jbx907

rrNovice

philppines

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hi wanted to ask what is the optimum cyclic pitch in degrees on the blades for flybarless systems that will have less requriement on estab?
thanks james.

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08-03-2011 02:43 AM  7 years agoPost 2
TrevJonez

rrKey Veteran

St.George, Utah - USA

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i used to know what i ran with my 3G but now that i switched to micro beast i can't even tell you.

i just increase/decrease my rates or end points on my tx until it spins the speed i like it too.

what gyro are you flying?

Who cares... its just money...

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08-03-2011 02:53 AM  7 years agoPost 3
jbx907

rrNovice

philppines

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oh so there is no standard on cyclic pitch setting on the blades when going FBL?

i tried using flymentor 3d as stabilizer... im trying to get full stick cyclic pitch standard on FBL setups! not into 3d but want it to behave more like flyabrred setups, so i can turn the stab off anytime i want!

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08-03-2011 05:12 AM  7 years agoPost 4
gouki

rrVeteran

philippines

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what do you mean 'less requirement on estab'? and i was wondering, why would you want to turn off the estab during flight?
there are a lot of different fbl systems and each brand has its own set up procedures which can be different from others. that's one problem i have why i am hesitant to go fbl, i am worried i need to relearn flying if i shift to fbl because they say it has its own feel. you should probably change your flymentor and go with a mikado vbar or futaba gy750 because their's are said to have the flybarred feel you are probably looking for

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08-03-2011 04:56 PM  7 years agoPost 5
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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it is 100% dependent on FBL system.
Skookum wants one value, Total G another, beastX a third, etc.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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08-03-2011 05:22 PM  7 years agoPost 6
jbx907

rrNovice

philppines

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sorry guys,
i was asking about a definite cyclic pitch of blades(in degrees) mechanically set when shifting to FBL, its either max aileron or elevator pitch on the blades using cyclic inputs. just like collective ptich which has a mechanical standard of 10degrees to 12 degrees! for flybar we have cyclic pitch of 8 degrees on the paddles!
what about cyclic pitch of the main blades? no standard at all?
regards james

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08-03-2011 05:35 PM  7 years agoPost 7
Ravenhyper50

rrKey Veteran

Canada's Capital

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Its what ever you want! Most systems will let you set up the heli just how you want it. Forget the limits like a flybar head has.

Your not so limited in pitch values with fbl like you have with flybar.

Like mentioned before each system is different how you set them up.
If you want better advise try to narrow down what system your leaning to getting. I prefer V-bar over all the rest Its one of the easiest systems to set up! Just follow the step by step onscreen instructions. It cant get any easier then that.

Cheers,
Raven

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08-03-2011 06:27 PM  7 years agoPost 8
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Go with stock settings for your FBL system and fly. Adjust from there as far as more or less roll/pitch/collective rates. The walk through on vbar as stated, is very helpful for setup. I'm helping a buddy set up his 3G and it's tougher as there is no pictures and walk through that you can do at the field.

High Voltage just works better

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08-03-2011 07:53 PM  7 years agoPost 9
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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With my SK720 I started with 10 degrees but my roll rate would slow down as speed decreased. Increasing cyclic to 11 solved that problem and now it’s the same at all flight speeds.

With my Futaba CGY they recommended 8 so I started with that but it way a little slow. I increased to 10 but that way crazy fast. I finally settled on a little less than 9 degrees.

So you can see that every controller is a little different. I suggest that you start with the recommended value and fly that for a while first.

... BTS

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08-03-2011 09:26 PM  7 years agoPost 10
kcordell

rrElite Veteran

O Fallon, MO

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Optimum or ideal cyclic pitch on a FBL heli is dependent on heli, FBL control unit, flying style, blades, ect. There is no right answer. What works for one may not work or feel right for another. Now if you were to list the model, blades, RPM, FBL controller you will get many suggestions as to what works on that model for many different pilots.

Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, YS Engines, VelTye

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08-03-2011 09:37 PM  7 years agoPost 11
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Setting the pitch on some FBL controllers is for optimizing the control loop for the software. VBAR recommends 8 degrees and that allows you to have your heli in the "sweet spot". Above or below that makes the unit have to work harder and makes it harder to tune.
Every controller is different so go with the recommendations set by the manufacturer......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-04-2011 12:07 AM  7 years agoPost 12
Shawn Behrens

rrApprentice

DEEP IN THE BOG

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Please note that there is a difference between the setup process where you are teaching the fbl controller the machines geometry and the actuall setting of cyclic travel.

shawn

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08-04-2011 03:44 AM  7 years agoPost 13
jbx907

rrNovice

philppines

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thanks very much for all your answers... so there is no specified target for cyclic pitch, it has to be felt by the pilot if apreciated..
i guess it will also be different with size and weight of the heli... thanks very much modulators...
great help
cheers james

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08-07-2011 04:50 PM  7 years agoPost 14
CF_Machete

rrApprentice

Raritan, NJ, USA

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Are you refering to the cyclic deflection at mid stick allocated to the cyclic gyro vs the deflection which you allocate to manual control? For example, in the total g setup, you set your travel adjust or d/r to 100% and then set +/-11 degrees of mid stick deflection on the gyro setup... Which is what is allocated to the gyro. Then, to make the bird flyable, you reduce the travel adjust or d/r so that you will only have acess to +/- 6-8 degrees of deflection at mid stick.

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08-07-2011 07:23 PM  7 years agoPost 15
jbx907

rrNovice

philppines

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i am refering to a mechanical target just like we have for collective pitch of 10-14degrees..this is from flybar setup right? this is carried to FBL too, what about cyclic pitch, it would be cyclic full stick to produce x amount degrees cyclic mechanically.. it does not matter what brand or type of radio / stabilizer we have, they're all adjustable, even without stablizers there would be a cyclic pitch target! what do i mean optimum.. it would be the amount of cyclic pitch to fly it without electronic stab.. not all fliers do 3d!

it would or might be set with the stabilizer off to measure the true cyclic pitch coz there would be a swash reaction of stab gyros!

flybar systems used to have 8degrees on flybar paddle as full stick cyclic standard which is not the main blades but still we have a standard, and this does not concern your radio, or electronics, but this is a mechanical target we follow!

if we dont have a target, we are just guessing and using the electonics, inserting rates, expos etc, and guessing the outcome.
do real helis just guess their cyclic pitch? a helicopter mechanic might know!

i hope you see the point, almost everyone is going FBL nowdays and still why there is no one setting a standard or range!

reguards James

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08-09-2011 01:34 AM  7 years agoPost 16
CF_Machete

rrApprentice

Raritan, NJ, USA

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yes the collective pitch is the same for both a flybarred and fbl setup.

when your aileron and elevator travel adjust is at 100%, you should set your gyro to have +/- 11-14 degrees of cyclic pitch. Then lower your travel adjust so that you can only use =/- 6-8 degrees cyclic pitch from your transmitter.

this allows your swash plate to move side to side +/- 11=14 per your gyros inputs, but only +/ 6-8 from your transmitter inputs.

with tail gyros, we normally let the gyro access just as much pitch as we allow the transmitter. however the cyclic needs to be set up more precisely.

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › optimum cyclic pitch for flybarless
08-09-2011 05:04 AM  7 years ago •• Post 17 ••
jbx907

rrNovice

philppines

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oh you mean the controls are aproximately 6-8 degress cyclic and the gyro reaction is set electronically the the stab, is this 11 deg the swash reaction or amount of degrees the gyro can retain its angle with the repect to the original helis position?
so the cyclic pitch using the stick input is 6-8degrees or what you prefer! this 11 degrees range must be retaining cyclic pitch the helis position is that correct?
thanks again CF_Machete
james

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08-09-2011 05:42 AM  7 years agoPost 18
psych-lick

rrKey Veteran

Portland, OR

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you really don't have to worry about cyclic pitch for a fbl setup.

Do you care how much pitch your tail blade have? No. You simply setup the travel limits and then you use radio rates to control piro speed. Your gyro will take over the tail blade pitch an use as much or little as necessary to meet your piro demands. The gyro will have to use much more pitch when the tail goes up wind vs down wind in order to keep the rotation consistent up and down wind.

A fbl controller will do the same thing as a tail gyro except it is for flip and roll. You determine the flip/roll rate by the radio rates and the fbl controller will determine the blade pitch amount to meet your demands.

Some fbl controllers have a way to prevent binding in the head by limiting the travel of your cyclic servos. On a Vbar it's called 'cyclic ring'. You simply teach the fbl controller the physical limits of the swash and linkage.

-Jeff T.

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08-09-2011 06:13 AM  7 years agoPost 19
jbx907

rrNovice

philppines

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oh ok, the cyclic gyro works like the tail and retain the last position when stick is let go, just like any tail gyro would do!
no wonder we cant set cyclic pitch unless it has the ability to be turned off, i have seen pilots prefer without estabs on their scale helis!
im trying to get my flymentor 3d with fbl setup.. it does not function as retaining angle estabs, it is more on the auto level stabilty, it is setup up more like non sabilized helis where you can set collective pitch and cyclic pitch! ive have tried 6degrees cyclic and it was to agile had to inset dual rates... without dualrates and expo i arrived with 3.5degrees cyclic maybe can do more!
maybe my question would be apropiate for FBL builders that dont use FBL stabilizers.
thank again

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08-10-2011 01:59 AM  7 years agoPost 20
CF_Machete

rrApprentice

Raritan, NJ, USA

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the reason we should first set the gyros max and min cyclic pitch to +/- 11-14 is to prevent the swash from an extreme correction and creating oscillations that respond quickly.

when you adjust your cyclic pitch, collective pitch and mechanically trim your fbl bird, you should have zero gains on your cyclic. This essentially turns your cyclic gyro off. many fbl systems have set up modes which do this for you, but for others you must select a memory bank with zero cyclic gain values for setup mode. when trimming out a fbl bird with the cyclic gyro turned off, the cyclic response will be slow and you should try to do it on a windless day... for accuracy.

so why turn off your fbl gyro for cyclic and collective pitch set up? if the swash reaches a tx end point, the gyro will attempt to correct until it reaches he gyro end point. so if you are on you bench ad the gyro does not sense the bird moving, it will step in to correct until it reaches it max end point.

so why mechanically trim your bird with out the cyclic gyro activated? trim on your tx works like a tx input. so when your bird it perfectly level, the tx is still telling it to roll in one direction or another... and as in your pitch setting... the gyro will again attempt to correct until it reaches it max end point. except this time your blades are spinning and your off the ground...so your bird may roll or flip until it crashes.

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