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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
10-30-2011 01:47 AM  7 years agoPost 301
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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the e's had the advantage, then the 120 came out...

in spring that will smoke a bunch of e's, then e's will start to run 14S in 700's

"14s" someone will say "heck why not 16s" then 16s will become the norm

THEN YS or OS will come out with a 150, they'll smoke some more e's

THEN the guy who said "16s" will build a 20s machine

and so on and so on and so on...

...until such time the birds will be too heavy to fly...

AND THEN Sylvester McMicheal McMonkey McBean (the hobby MFG) will ride away from the beach in his "star making machine" filled with money.

you never read "the Sneeches on the Beeches" did you...should pick a copy up and read it...DEFINETLY APPLIES HERE

so as I said, there is nothing to debate, it's going to keep going back and forth, bigger bader, better will not stop coming, both N and E, and we'll keep spending our money like good little sheep

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-30-2011 02:16 AM  7 years agoPost 302
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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At Ircha the 120 was nothing special really. In fact pretty sure Bobby's 90 on his whiplash was performing better then 120s I seen front row and center. And well it was warm out Nitros in general were lagging far far behind at the event for power in comparison.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-30-2011 03:06 AM  7 years agoPost 303
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Your heli can run 2500 for 5 minutes but it still is not as powerful as an E running 2300 for 4 minutes.
Can someone please tell me how an electric running at 2300 could possably be more powerful than whatever power source running 2500 up to the stall pitch of the blades. Is there even a rational to this? I mean, I can tell the difference in power running the electric at different speeds. Higher HS = more agile and faster...period.

This is indeed getting tiring going over the same thing again and again. Think of it however you wish but I suppose you'd have to have flown as powerful a Nitro to understand. And, I've seen the Whiplash and the 120 flown back to back. Strange but I thought the 120 outperformed. Go figure.

Team POP Secret

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10-30-2011 03:16 AM  7 years agoPost 304
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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It was consensus of many at ircha the 120 surely was not all that. Now does that mean Tim is not as good of tuner as bobby? Doubt that but it is what it is, best nitro performance myself and a group of others right on flight line was Bobby's wl consistently on demos.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-30-2011 03:49 AM  7 years agoPost 305
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I saw the 120 getting more attention. Perhaps it was perfected a bit more since IRCHA...he has been working on that.
Anyway, I'd have gone for more displacement on a 700 anyway. After all, that heli gets as much as 7 minutes I believe is what he said. Hey, some would probably be pretty happy with that much power for that long....all depends on the individual I guess. My cutoff is closer to 5 minutes right now....getting power levels comparable to an e that goes 3. That's a lot. 5 minutes is 167% of 3.

Team POP Secret

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10-30-2011 04:46 PM  7 years agoPost 306
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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]Your heli can run 2500 for 5 minutes but it still is not as powerful as an E running 2300 for 4 minutes
Can someone please tell me how an electric running at 2300 could possably be more powerful than whatever power source running 2500 up to the stall pitch of the blades. Is there even a rational to this?
Ron, even though I think I know what your saying(I watched the vids too), I have to agree with Bob on this one. If a 90 powered 600, or a 12S powered 600, with a HS of 2500 and coll. pitch of 14-15 is virtually "unboggable", it really doesn't matter what power system is doing it. The vids were not that convincing to me, mostly because the flights were done so far away from the camera. Vids are not the same as being there. IMO, the most impressive vids are very fast and close up ones. In watching vids, for a long time I hadn't seen any N's that were nearly as impressive as the fast(albeit short)E's. The farther away from the camera the heli is, esp if it's a 600, the slower it looks and the harder it is to see. I have to say I recently watched Nick Maxwell flying a 700N that was jaw dropping for me, but he flew in very close and very fast...it almost looked sped up, but I have to believe it wasn't. Before I am willing to judge the BB600, I would have to see it close up and personal, and maybe fly it. Until then I can't make a call on it, esp not based on far away vids. But, I have to say a modern 91 in a 600 running 2500 HS has got to have gobs of power.

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10-30-2011 05:15 PM  7 years agoPost 307
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Was going to get a 120 and a pipe but wow no thanks. $$$
Just looked on heliproz web site,

YS120 is $537
Couldn't find the pipe, but a H SB-21FH is $250
The 120 pipe will be that much.

Total: $787 (+ fuel of course)

I used to spend almost that on the best OS 91's I had:

91 $350
Hat $190
duel glow Viper head $130
Kline reg $85

price $755

If I bought 15 cases of fuel it would equal approx the same in mins of flight time as 400 flights on my 700E. So what a person has to pay for fuel and how much they fly, will have a big impact on which is cheaper the first year or two.

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10-30-2011 05:48 PM  7 years agoPost 308
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Band1086,
What electric equipment can be purchased for $787 and have nitro-equivalent performance? I believe it would cover a motor and a pair of quality G3 6S lipos? In other words: 2 years worth of fuel. I have more time than money, so this works for me.

Sure, if you are prone to crashing often start out with nitro, and then graduate.

_Sam B_

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10-30-2011 06:08 PM  7 years agoPost 309
racin06

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis, Indiana

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Electric flight technology is innovative and cutting-edge. Lets all be honest, the technology associated with the nitro engines has been around for 70+ years and has changed very little over this time period. Yes, nitro = 1940s technology.

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10-30-2011 09:03 PM  7 years agoPost 310
KC

rrElite Veteran

WA

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For those still fascinated with power, buy a raptor 30 and enter a few expert class 3d comps in your region.

If you can't place in the top 3 each time with a decade old underpowered heli against whatever everyone else has got, youre missing the big picture.

----

With the new YS 120 I would seriously consider putting that motor on a low nitro diet, to make a machine to fly on short notice at the end of the day, whenever I can't charge big lipos, etc etc.

If I really went back to glow it would be another raptor 30 even though I have had plenty of everything else glow and many much better machines.

Why the raptor 30 and not another 30? You don't have to pick the raptor, it just has to be a cheap fun heli that you are willing to push yourself with.

Nowadays my raptor 30 is a logo 600, figured out cheap motors and batteries and blades that make it a heli I am ok risking....but also being a decade since the raptor, I don't push as hard now.

What really matters is that you got a plan to get where you want to get, so if you got to have more power to see you don't really need it, then join the club of all of us who have done that too. Meanwhile I can assure you that if you like what you fly right now, there is no reason to see whats on the other side of the fence unless you just have to.

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10-30-2011 10:26 PM  7 years agoPost 311
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Bravo...and well said KC

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-31-2011 04:00 AM  7 years agoPost 312
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Well, I think I better watch what I say about electrics because I feel like the electricity gods have gotten mad at me.

I was running my CNC yesterday morning with a crazy snowfall going on outside. Crazy for this time of year in these parts anyway. I never saw so many downed trees...not even close. I happened to look out the window and thought my power wires were hanging aweful low...just as a snow plow came by and snagged them.
Not having the power to put the breaks on, the business end of the CNC is now burried in a molten blob of aluminum.
I figured it a good time to go get some backup power going.
This morning, chain saws, snow blowers...ugh.

Next thing you know, I'm repairing engines. Ignition stuff mostly. Damn these high maintenance things. I thought of you Sam. Hey, was starter shaft on your list? Pull chords actually but you get the idea.
Then, I decided I HAD to have some coffee. The inverter didn't like that. YES! It did a castle on me. To my pleasant surprize, I had a few FET's in the spares bin that were suitable...and a little 150W cigarette lighter inverter to power the soldering iron. I'm back in business...for a while.

Moral of the story, the engine repairs indeed got my hands a lot more dirty. And, I have a newfound appreciation for electricity.
And, the blob of aluminum will make a nice addition to my "hall of shame plaque".

Team POP Secret

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10-31-2011 04:37 AM  7 years agoPost 313
rilopez825

rrVeteran

Pembroke Pines, FL

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This Saturday was also not a good one for us. We had an align esc flame up and my gas tank sprung a leek that wouldn't allow fuel pressure to the engine. Unfortunate the esc fire took out the tail servo on my friends 550 and well I always have a spare tank for those little things. Replaced the tank and went flying. The 550 well sad to say he won't be flying for a little while and he actually purchased a vibe 50 nitro used at a swap meet today cause he is fed up with e machines. I had no part in persuading him into doing so.

Richard

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10-31-2011 04:48 AM  7 years agoPost 314
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Friends don't let Friends run cheap escs those things will happen!!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-31-2011 05:08 AM  7 years agoPost 315
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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This thread
I have to say that I have been eyeballing this debate for many many months..and never responded...but enough is enough..who really cares? .all I have to say is...fly what you want..

I have 14 ready to fly electrics that I do in fact fly

I have 1 nitro that's ready to fly...but I just haven't flown it...6 months after building it

If you really want to talk about power to weight..how can you honestly say that nitro has an upper hand?

I've flown nitro for years and had just about every available setup..if you buy quality electric parts ..which doesn't include align or castle...then your electric heli should be reliable

There's nothing wrong with nitro helis...but for overall performance and ease of use..there's nothing like electric..

I have more money than time...so electric is perfect for me....I don't care about cost ..when I want to fly..I fly..

I stop to fly for 10 minutes on my way to work...so I take my Electric heli out of the trunk...plug it in and fly..

If I try to do that with my nito I would have time to fuel it up and maybe start it

So for me ..electric is perfect..bottom line is that nitro is good for some...and electric is better for others...choose what you want...but enough is enough...this debate is so old...

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10-31-2011 07:14 AM  7 years agoPost 316
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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I just thought of a down fall of lipo batteries: they don't like cold weather in the way of holding voltage and discharge rate. So nowadays I'm reduced to 5:30 minutes instead of 6 minutes in the summer. Fortunately this is primarily a summer time hobby sport.

PS: Bob, I didn't think my little voo-doo doll actually worked. Sorry about that! (Just kidding!!) LOL

_Sam B_

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10-31-2011 07:41 AM  7 years agoPost 317
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Agree jag useless threads, when create a new topic it should almost just not allow you to type in E vs N, or the full words,, LOL!! All the talk of 3 minute flight times and drop off, total bull btw...There seems to be no way to keep any facts going for too long..

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-31-2011 08:03 AM  7 years agoPost 318
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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But I thought this is how we become rrProfessors?

_Sam B_

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10-31-2011 08:30 AM  7 years agoPost 319
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Not me not in one of these threads

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-31-2011 02:13 PM  7 years agoPost 320
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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Beware the Aliens are watching

" Team Protoast "

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
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