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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
10-29-2011 04:52 PM  7 years agoPost 281
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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HA! That's very funny Helix! LOL
um...isn't this type of response outside the rules you setup for the thread?

regardless...what's funny about the post?

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10-29-2011 05:23 PM  7 years agoPost 282
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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I would conclude that the 120 is far more powerful than any current 700E setup.
I had to laugh out loud when I read that part, not being sarcastic, just thought that was hilarious!

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10-29-2011 05:26 PM  7 years agoPost 283
Nycatt

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New York

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lol ROTLMAO

Good one Band.




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10-29-2011 05:33 PM  7 years agoPost 284
helixangle

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so when E's were busting main gears and the E guys were using this as proof of power, now that the tables have turned, and the N's are busting the "special made for E" main gears, you would dismiss this as proof of power?

you can't have your cake and eat it too, sound like your in denial...

The 120 is far superior to current E setups, it can and has sustained the power for the entire flight duration, only increasing it's P-to-W over flight duration. At current this is the only class that has the edge over E,

E still reins in the 600 class, with exception to Damien...

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-29-2011 06:10 PM  7 years agoPost 285
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Like I said all along, the drag races will most likely go to electric. Very simple really, does not take all that much thought. Not proven really, but the physics suggests it. If I were to go for a speed run, I would choose electric as a starting place. But, I'm more into the formula race, even at the track, the drag races never held my attention. Interesting at 1st but a bit boring. That's just me.

Helix, FYI, I think the winners of the speed run have more to do with drivetrain than aerodynamics. Yes, all count...but the most notable of the winners that I see is the geartrain being able to run insane headspeeds and pitch. That is...dump MAH at an incredible rate.

Team POP Secret

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10-29-2011 06:15 PM  7 years agoPost 286
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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not discounting power plant or gear train

but you can have two Identical birds, motor, esc, Tx Rx setups, batteries, gear train etc. etc. etc.

change the canopy designs and watch the top speed change, substantially.

You cannot discount aerodynamics at these speeds, they have a substantial overall affect

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-29-2011 06:17 PM  7 years agoPost 287
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Busting Main Gears
We seem to be forgetting that a nitros gear mesh is set....non adjustable for the most part and any mesh that has as much lash as a Trex 700 will fail under electric motor and 120 loads.
Electrics are also more agile, accelerate faster, and continue to pull where nitros fail. Aerodynamics have some to do with Electrics being faster but it was a 30 MPH difference......you can remove the pipe,get a slick canopy, grease that baby with WD-40 and it still would have got spanked. It all comes down to the powerplant and it is obvious to me and everybody else there, nitro was at the bottom of the heap......Ron

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10-29-2011 06:32 PM  7 years agoPost 288
helixangle

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no denying that the 2011 results are what they are, 88MPH to 128MPH Big difference.

actually HUDGE difference, 31% to be exact

(sadly SPANKED would be appropriate here)

But...I'm sure the diablo had the latest and greatest.

More than positive the Nitro did not, as the latest and greatest was not available at the time.

AND...the trex is like a brick to the wind. Great for 3D, horrible for speed pass competition

Now if we could have a 120 powered LOGO...

wait...hey Bob, lets put the 120 in the LOGO

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-29-2011 06:35 PM  7 years agoPost 289
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I've spoken to Tim Jones about his build. He does not seem to be the sort that would let a gear mesh issue get in his way. Pretty mechanically inclined individual.

Anyway, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand, John, I do beleive electric would be the choice for a drag race. Pretty simple physics would predict it. Electrics do shine in the ability to dump it's energy. It's only when you are looking for consistant power over a flight that lasts a couple minutes that Nitro takes over. HMMM, that's interesting, this has been the argument the Nitro guys have been making for years. There is a point in duration where the table turns such that Nitro can deliver more power.

So, how many guys are doing speed runs right now? 1 or 2 world wide maybe? Versus many thousands doing 3D and sport. Drag races are a bragging point...but not much more than that eh?
Do a drag race, then some 3D, then some sport flying...now I'll put Nitro in the competition.

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10-29-2011 06:37 PM  7 years agoPost 290
BobOD

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New York- USA

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wait...hey Bob, lets put the 120 in the LOGO
It would snap it like a twig. The 91 would in fact.

Team POP Secret

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10-29-2011 06:37 PM  7 years agoPost 291
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Kind of like a heli "triathlon"

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10-29-2011 06:38 PM  7 years agoPost 292
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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It would snap it like a twig. The 91 would in fact
how about a LOGO with a carbon frame set?

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Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-29-2011 06:48 PM  7 years agoPost 293
BobOD

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New York- USA

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how about a LOGO with a carbon frame set?
Why bother...you have a CF frame now.

Team POP Secret

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10-29-2011 07:27 PM  7 years agoPost 294
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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public apology
I want to make a public apology for all harsh words spoken. That wan't cool on my part. I'm sorry for that.

_Sam B_

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10-29-2011 08:06 PM  7 years agoPost 295
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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The argument I keep hearing is that nitro is more powerful .......hence the debate. If the N guys would just admit it is not more powerful and it will only BE more powerful at the end of the E's flight, then the debate will continue.
So if a drag race does not prove it for N guys and power during flight is clearly subjective (although E is clearly superior to the E guys ) what objective means would you guys suggest we need to prove this once and for all?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-29-2011 08:47 PM  7 years agoPost 296
helixangle

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nothing to prove...

E wins in the 600 or smaller category, with the exception of Damien.

700 N clearly takes it, given "right now" available technology.

nothing to debate, what's to debate...

The E side has the lion share of the current air frames on the market

as nitro and electric dovelop, who knows.

E technology has peaked, it has nowhere to go, anything above 65C is redundant, what's left is increasing cell count.

nitro has yet to reach 180 size engines in 700 class machines, so Nitro has quite a ways to go.

We already know E is instantaneous and has a wide plateau of available peak torque, it's ultimate advantage, but that doesn't mean it can't be beat

We have to wait and see...

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-29-2011 09:50 PM  7 years agoPost 297
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I don't know about all, but I feel I'm being pretty clear. I don't pick one narrow feature and say, therefore, one is better. That is too easy. Then I would simply say duration is the only measure and gas would win. I prefer to consider a bigger picture and show that I do realize that there are pros and cons to both and be realistic about it.

More than 2-3 minutes, Nitro is more powerful...at least Damien is in the 600 class. And, I don't mean a couple minutes fast/a couple of conserve etc etc. With Damien, you can push it hard, run 2500 and get 5+ flight time. You can drop it down to 2200 and get even more flight time and push it hard there too. More than enough torque to run 623's in this RPM range. I don't see an electric that can do this.

As for a drag race, nothing at all is proven. You put a manufacturer behind the development to run a speed run, that's going to win no matter Nitro or electric. But, I'd still give this category to the electrics. I agreed to that one close to a year ago.

Team POP Secret

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10-30-2011 12:48 AM  7 years agoPost 298
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Wait a minute. I have to take some of what I've said back. I just looked at the weight of a 4535 motor.
I have to rethink my figures again. Still not as heavy as a comparable Nitro engine....more than I had figured is all.

Team POP Secret

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10-30-2011 01:23 AM  7 years agoPost 299
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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More than 2-3 minutes, Nitro is more powerful...at least Damien is in the 600 class. And, I don't mean a couple minutes fast/a couple of conserve etc etc. With Damien, you can push it hard, run 2500 and get 5+ flight time. You can drop it down to 2200 and get even more flight time and push it hard there too. More than enough torque to run 623's in this RPM range. I don't see an electric that can do this.
As for a drag race, nothing at all is proven. You put a manufacturer behind the development to run a speed run, that's going to win no matter Nitro or electric. But, I'd still give this category to the electrics. I agreed to that one close to a year ago.
Team POP Secret
Your heli can run 2500 for 5 minutes but it still is not as powerful as an E running 2300 for 4 minutes.
Duration is a term you made up, that is why you have no comparison for it in the E side. It cannot be measured, it is simply an opinion based on a logic you created.
That is why I want an objective test so that the debate can be settled once and for all.
What manufacturer built a specific heli for IRCHA? All those helis were used in the demos for 3D flight and they went over to the speed run to have fun and see what they would do. Turns out they smoked any nitro there which proves it even more as they were not specifically built for the Speed Cup, they were just flown in it.
Anybody else have any ideas on how to solve this fairly and objectively?????

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-30-2011 01:28 AM  7 years agoPost 300
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Speaking of duration anyone see Martin gosling hover that flag around at the mikado demo for over 40 minutes? Now if your learning which half naysayers are nitro won't get ya that flight time.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
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