RunRyder RC
 23  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 23 pages [ <<    <     11      12     ( 13 )     14      15     NEXT    >> ] 20728 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
10-28-2011 05:23 AM  6 years agoPost 241
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Out of the list I made I see every one of those action sequences consistently happen weekly, monthly, and every year among all the nitro power systems and pilot. It's the same old head scratching, same old cuss words flying, and same old facial expressions when it happens. Including myself I see the electric power systems repeatedly plug-n-fly without delay and nothing but smiles on their faces.

If having "skillz" means repeating the listed items, well give yourself a star. I'm at the field to fly, not bs with high maintenance hardware.

_Sam B_

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 05:33 AM  6 years agoPost 242
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

For nitro or electric buy quality field fires don't happen. There's been a trillion posts "exaggeration" ...on Castle escs going up. A smart persons saves abit more buys quality saves their heli and win.win situation..Need a solution?, simple don't buy junk and expect it to be king.

Learned same thing on nitro recently on my .50 buy fb320 pipe bolt holes strip/oval out buy a OS Powerboost problem solved difference worth it by far.

And YES as Sam says I see more people fiddling with Nitros and crashing due to failures at one event then usually witness all entire year with electrics. I for one don't have much personal time away from work and family so time is vey much so worth something. This year fortunate to live close to who many claim as a nitro tuning expert and he really is and has taught me a ton on recognition of meaningful changes etc, he is a +20 year guy in hobby, good pilot to and he now owns both and we've shared knowledge. He loves his nitro but am finding he flies it less now then his electrics. Biggest statement he made to me once before knowing anything about electrics was "I had no idea how simple and fun electrics are no hassles just fly, until I tried them I was very negative about them". True see many people who don't know and slam it because fear of unknown.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 06:30 AM  6 years agoPost 243
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey, I go to the theater to see "Real Steel", cool show by the way, and come back to see some personal slam like this:
not pointing fingers just saying some have better luck (skillz) than others
I would appreciate if you'd edit that out, CX...

Not sure what's wrong with that pic, a little messy but doesn't show anything about skill level...

Instead of bashing what we don't like, posting pos on what we do?

Like with my E's, a whole lot less maintenance than I've ever had before... Only if I crash, or want to tweak the FBL system. I can't even remember the last time I did any wrenching on one of them, unless I wanted to try a different motor or ESC...etc. Fantastic!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 06:52 AM  6 years agoPost 244
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey Sam,
It certainly seems you have hatred for Nitro and that's fine. But for the sake of being considerate to those who might enjoy them, I have to say what you describe seems excessively exagerated. I mean, someone new would read your post and never go near Nitro. Yet, obviously, some people enjoy them....odd isn't it?
I do realize that Nitro provides more of a challenge, more to some than others, but I've never seen what you describe. Once in a while maybe, but nobody gets frustrated. Many things are fixed pretty quickly and the ones I can think of as of late are known design or manuf defect and even they get resolved. Not all that different than electrics. All the manufacturers have given their pops. All of them.
Just isn't the way you describe at all over here. Far from it. We have quite a few Nitro flyers here and they're going up one after the other all day.

Now, the best is...to have both...as neither compete with the other in every category. To be quite honest, I'd prefer electric if all I had was a 55 to fly in my 600. The outcome of the 91 erases any minor thing such as a glow plug going bad or whatever. But, that's just me.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 07:18 AM  6 years agoPost 245
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Edit: I apologize for all harsh & rude comments. I don't want to hurt feelings. I'm sorry, Bob.

My hatred here is towards others wasting time unnecessarily with high maintenance hardware. I've laid it out on the table for all to see, even the new pilots can make an educated decision.
but nobody gets frustrated
What I've outlined a slew of frustration. I believe many nitro can identify with many (or all) of the items listed.

_Sam B_

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 08:05 AM  6 years agoPost 246
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Why so harsh Sam? You should not be bothered by other peoples opinions and desires. In a way, that's a bit disrespectful don't you think?

And, it wasn't a contradiction, you just want to make it out as such. I say I never see what you describe. Once in a while I see some things you mention, but what you describe is not quite what I see. Moving forward, can we try to avoid reading into things and slamming the hammer down. I hate having to spell everything out verbatum just to avoid someone looking for flaws. It is very wasteful of our time. This is supposed to be a friendly environment don't you think?

And whatever reality I am in, that reality is that a lot of guys are out here enjoying their Nitros and not getting frustrated on quite a regular basis. I imagine there are some somewhere, sometimes but not regularly. Mostly enjoying themselves. Maybe it's just that, for some, there's nothing on that list that outweighs the benefits.

Just different opinions...nothing to hate someone for man.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 10:55 AM  6 years agoPost 247
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

1.fuel flowing into my muffler (can I get an Amen)
2.hydro lock.
3.fooling around with a glow igniter.
4.sh!t did I charge my glow igniter?
5.is my glow igniter actually putting out juice?
6.is my glow plug really glowing while I'm cranking and cranking.
7.check my receiver battery voltage.
8.damn, that electric guy might beat me to the flight line. I hope my nitro power system actually starts this time. Oops my glow plug must have died again! Time to do that whole ritual again.
9.fooling around with starting my engine (and getting the damn rod in the starter nut).
10.Why is this dang motor not starting? Oh geez, I forgot to unclamp my fuel line. Boy do I feel like a dummy.
11.gosh dang it did I charge my starter?
12.fussing with needles because the weather changed.
13.Why am I suddenly running rich or lean? Oh yea, because the weather changed.
14.engine quitting.
15.muffler coming loose or falling off.
16.changing glow plugs.
17.should I change my glow plug?
18.air leaks.
19.clunks.
20.ring replacement.
21.Break-in, after break-in, after break-in.
22.rear bearing replacement.
23.after-run oil for storage.
24.dropping the motor for any reason.
25.too rich.
26.too lean.
27.change fuel bottles every 7 flights.
28.to continue flying, take another trip to the hobby store for yet more fuel (or place order).
29.to continue flying, take yet another trip to the store to buy glow plugs
30.clutch broke.
31.clutch replacement.
32.clutch liner replacement.
33.hey Ted, what elevation are we at? Oh crap I guess that means we have less power at this elevation. I guess we can't fly as hard.
34.Walking to the flight line and my engine quite. Nooooooo!
35.The funky chicken.
36.did I forget anything in this list.
Lol I have to agree with all this but this would be the absolute worse case scenario and for the inexperienced pilot at that!

I could have solved all these in the time it took 3 of us to figure out a Kontronik ESC manual!!

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 11:26 AM  6 years agoPost 248
sinte

rrVeteran

Tacoma,WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

here's how hard it is to start a nitro:

Watch at YouTube

hear the beeeeeep? it's called switch-glo

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:32 PM  6 years agoPost 249
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Of course there are challenges with E and N but for me E issues are easily solved by buying good equipment. When you crash, any part of a heli can be damaged or not and I have never damaged a lipo in a crash......never. I have however busted a pipe and broken the case on my nitro engine in a crash......sucked.
All the problems listed by both sides can be avoided with experience and good equipment, I personally enjoy my Logo and TDR blade sounds not being drowned out by an engine that sounds like a scooter

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 01:13 PM  6 years agoPost 250
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The guy that has all those problems in that ridiculous list will have problems with anything.

Hard to start...

Starting ten times even?

Watch at YouTube

Did I charge my starter battery?
No.I pushed a button on it to see if I needed to.
It said I was good for a couple hundred more flights.

Switchglo...Hmm,you mean it gives an audible tone to let you know the glow plug is lit and good?Wow...Magic.lol...

RX battery needs charged?
Not for ten flights or so.

How many batteries do you charge on an electric for ten flights?
Most guys charge at least twenty large 6S packs for that many flights.
And then THEIR RX battery is dead too.
Gotta get the flight packs done before charging the RX pack.

Getting the starter in the starter nut?
Holy cow...How the hell do you plug in 100 batteries?

Hydro lock..Tip it and drain it.
Same as tipping an electric to get a last look at your connections.

Un-clamping the fuel line is a big deal?
That's just sad and I won't comment further on it.

Muffler falling off?
Whoever built it will have stuff falling off anything they touch.

Break in after break in after break in?
Again,the guy blowing up engines all the time has other issues to resolve.

Change fuel bottles every 7 flights?
Change batteries TWICE on EVERY flight...You're changing them on the charger as well as the heli...Take out of one situation to put them in another.

Need more fuel from the LHS to continue?
Back to the guy who didn't bring enough...He'll have issues with anything he does in life.

What elevation we at?
The one you were at yesterday,the day before and the day before...Do you really fly in that many different places that you don't know where you are?

Funky chicken?
Heli burnt to a cinder from a smashed lipo...along with a 1000 acres of someone elses land.

Bad glow plugs?
They should last as long as an average lipo does...This poor guy has yet to address his other issues.

The rest of the list is too ludicrous to even play with.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 02:01 PM  6 years agoPost 251
Nycatt

rrElite Veteran

New York

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Most of the things on that list can be avoided with experience as Laughing mentioned. I've been fully Electric for the last 3 months and the biggest thing I DON'T miss is cleaning oil off the bird. Will I get another nitro? Yes, but right now I enjoy flying better than tweaking and cleaning.




Team Synergy
Rail Blades
MKS Servos
Thunder Power
Vteam

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 04:18 PM  6 years agoPost 252
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I thank everyone for doing their part keeping things civil here, and very entertaining/ informative.

In my 10-12 year stint in Nitro helis, I've had most of what's on Sam's list happen, and I've seen or heard of all of it, albeit not every time a guy flies. And most things on there are fixable in anywhere from 2 seconds to 1 min. And with parts, all are fixable within 30 to 60 mins. And btw, equipment is much better now then it ever has been. So, anyone who loves to fly, and prefers N's will overcome anything that comes up or not fly that day...

On the E side, Castles problems with both esc's and some bec's definitely gave E's a "black eye", but I think they have it under control now. I haven't heard of the V2 bec's causing a problem for quite a while now. The latest version of Ices haven't been out very long yet, but so far so good, we shall see...and imo Aligns esc's are lousy to start with.

In my 3-4 year stint with big E's, I've crash damaged 2 packs, but both still worked, but I'm sure their life was shortened. Over discharging can be a problem, until one gets used to using a timer and how long to set it for. I've had 1 ESC quit, a Jive 120, but it did not burn. I accidentally burned a Jeti ESC up on the bench, and had an Align ESC smoke on a heli. I have never forgot to bring my batts, but in my haste to get to the field, I forgot my transmitter once(I think that was when I was flying N's though, not sure).
I've never had a BL motor wear out, or even weaken, but I have had to replace bearings on an Actro, a Scorpion, and a Pyro 700. Battery tech is so much better now than ever, esp the high quality packs, those problems have pretty much gone away. Also, since the manufacturers have designed big E's, gear striping, which was my biggest frustration with conversions when I started has disappeared, except on my high powered 800, but I think I know what to do on that.
Oh, and twice I have run out of fuel in my gen and had to quit for the day.

OK, field equipment, this is what I take or have taken:

Nitro
1. Helis
2. table and cover
3. chair
4. TX
5. flight box with tools, fuel, and equipment in it. Mine had a lot of goodies, but was rather large and heavy.

Electric
1. Helis
2. table and cover
3. chair
4. TX
5. Generator
6. chargers/ ps case
7. tool and equipment case

So, in place of my flight box, I have 2 standard Harbor Freight cases and the Honda 2000i gen.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 05:05 PM  6 years agoPost 253
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That generator is a pretty substantial addition to your stuff to lose an 8 lb jug of fuel.lol...

I literally need the jug,starter and radio.
No field box but I fly at home sooo...
My jug is 5 gallons too so there's plenty.

20 cases of nitro burned and one bad glow plug.
It was because I left the air line off the muffler and had a lean run that not only burned the plug but piston as well.

EDIT: Forgot the Outrage pipe failure that burned up another engine.

If I were to list my problems with electric helis during the learning curve it would take several pages and hours to write/read.

Both have a learning curve and the common issues virtually disappear with experience on either.

In my case,the electric headaches were much worse than nitro and I just don't trust those big blue fire bombs.

And a 25 cent spring will prevent most chicken dances
Never had a chicken dance but I have NEVER crashed a nitro.
Failures on the heli cause most of my crashes and none of my four nitros have ever had a failure I couldn't land.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 05:26 PM  6 years agoPost 254
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Most of the things on that list can be avoided with experience as Laughing mentioned. I've been fully Electric for the last 3 months and the biggest thing I DON'T miss is cleaning oil off the bird. Will I get another nitro? Yes, but right now I enjoy flying better than tweaking and cleaning
Actually Nycatt, I don't recommend you getting another Nitro.

I am enjoying the posts, and most good, both E and N, as well some just ridiculous, like 36 line list of bad nitro things, I'll address this wonderful piece of literature later, and 16 minute electric helicopter flights, not going to comment as to weather or not it is possible, just saying that it is on the far outside of believable, would love to see a video, if anyone has a video link please post.

But what I have recently realized is that, as result of Nycatts post, neither power system is for everyone. I digress...

Nycatt is, by far, one of the best builders I know. Very detailed, very thorough, but, and for the life of me I can't figure this one out, he has had more trouble with nitro than anyone I have ever seen. Don't really know why as for me...nitro is easy, and dependable

So it is, there for, I've concluded that, IMO, you should fly what suits you the best, what your most comfortable with.

I use electric for practising new manuvers, as, for me, I can have very sloppy collective management, which can sometimes be the case when trying something new, once I have a feel for the move, I switch back to nitro as, for me, it is the superior power plant, with the least amount of hassle, but thats me.

As for the "clean up" argument...well I don't know about that one. I have found myself complaining about this as well, but, at the end of the day, both literal and figurative, it only takes about 2 minutes, and allows me to inspect my heli at the same time.

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 05:49 PM  6 years agoPost 255
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Clean up
Get the timer out.lol...

Go roll up your cords and put away your gasoline powered generator and power supplies and chargers while I get my nitro stuff put away.

I take a rag and wipe the drips off the tip of the exhaust deflector and I'm done.
It just doesn't get as messy as people claim.
I transport it on a comforter and have never got a stain on it.

Last flight...Close the fuel line and put the pin in the power disconnect...Pick it up.
Already have the radio in my hand so I just pick up the jug and starter on the way and that's everything.
One trip and everything is stowed.

I am truly not trying to sell nitro.
I just hate all those crazy claims as to how complicated nitro is.

We ALL carry the same tools.
I do have an 8mm socket to occasionally pull a glow plug but I have only used it a few times and that was while in the first days of learning when I didn't know why the engine wouldn't run.
Now it just starts time after time after time.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 05:54 PM  6 years agoPost 256
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If I were to list my problems with electric helis during the learning curve it would take several pages and hours to write/read.

Both have a learning curve and the common issues virtually disappear with experience on either.
I agree there is a learning curve for them, I think nitro is eaier, at least at first. However, consider this, I started with N's, but also had to learn all of the nuances of the R/C heli along with it, which made the whole experience harder in general. You started with E's, which have a steeper learning curve anyway, but you also had to lean the nuances of the R/C heli, which made the whole experience more difficult. And vise verse, if we'd have started with the opposite it would have been more difficult, because of the added having to learn the heli also. Now though, I would consider either to be fairly easy, because of only having to learn the power system only, not the heli in general...make sense?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 05:55 PM  6 years agoPost 257
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Someone mentioned winter E flying
I too have experienced cold pack problems in the winter, here's my solution, WORKS GREAT!

Your local pharmacy should have what's called a

"micro bead, microwavable back warmer" The key being micro bead

so when I am ready to go fly I:

1. charge my batteries in my house (batts still warm)
2. microwave the back warmer
3. put the back warmer in the bottom of a soft cooler, I suppose you could use a hard cooler, might be better
4. place a thin dish towel, folded over the back warmer
5. load my batteries into the cooler
6. go to the field and fly!

believe it or not the back warmer will stay warm and keep the batteries at good temperature for several hours.

hope this helps

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 05:57 PM  6 years agoPost 258
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hot starts
Only takes one to learn to never do it again.lol..
I can keep it under control though...Learned the hard way.

I have had a couple accidental spool ups with electric and there is no controlling it or stopping it...The heli gets wrecked and the flyer can be hurt.

Once,in the early days,I turned off the radio ahead of the RX and had my failsafes all wronged up

Another,I switched the throttle channel during set up and a never flown heli did a chicken dance in the living room and destroyed itself.

Once with a nitro,about my 3rd or 4th start,I had bumped it into idle up before starting...I ALWAYS look at the throttle horn on the carb now

Switchglo does away with that though.
I need to get another GLOve chip from Dave Playfair soon.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 06:01 PM  6 years agoPost 259
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Now though, I would consider either to be fairly easy, because of only having to learn the power system only, not the heli in general...make sense?
Perfect sense.
While learning to fly,any problem is magnified 10X

When I went nitro,the engine was the only thing to learn.
I had some expensive brain farts but nowhere near the headaches while learning to fly while learning to build...those two are a real soup sandwich

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 06:03 PM  6 years agoPost 260
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Another,I switched the throttle channel during set up and a never flown heli did a chicken dance in the living room and destroyed itself
I lost a computer screen in a similar way. Had the head off and wanted to see if the main was bent after a crash by spooling up.

forgot that the tail blades were on and WHACK...rainbow monitor.

I can't put this in the E category, as I was 3 months into the hobby. I'll put this in the beginners flubs.

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 23 pages [ <<    <     11      12     ( 13 )     14      15     NEXT    >> ] 20728 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 23  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, June 21 - 11:37 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online