RunRyder RC
WATCH
 23 pages [ <<    <     9      10     ( 11 )     12      13     NEXT    >> ] 21111 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
10-27-2011 11:38 PM  6 years agoPost 201
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bob most will not read past pages, but why don't you and Shawn post positives of both, without worrying about what the other says. Here's mine:

Electric:

1. Ultra smooth
2. Reasonably quiet(anyway I love the sound of the BL motors)
3. Getting better and cheaper than it used to be.
4. Ultra clean...except for the bug guts on the blades...
5. With the cleanness, if flying in dusty conditions, nothing for the dust to stick to.
6. For me, I've enjoyed ultimate reliability...fabulous!
7. Some say "plug-N-Play",which is true but, I believe there is a learning curve for proper usage.
8. I dealt with fuel for 12+ years before, and I much prefer charging batts, although I must admit I have all top of the line charging equipment and 2 Honda 2000i's If I had to wait more than 15 mins to charge, it would definitely be a neg!
9. Options, options, options, and more options! I like options however, I understand for some it a pita...
10.The peak power is simply awesome. It literally breathed new life into the hobby for me, as I was getting so bored!

Have I left out anything?

Nitro

1. Long flight times.
2. more time to practise.
3. More energy available in liquid fuel than current batts offer.
4. Some like the noise and smoke...
5. No gen needed, and a little less support gear to take to the field.
6. If the flight and tx batt will last, fly back to back as fast as you can fuel as long as your fuel holds out.
7. If you like wrenching, usually requires more...
8. Cheaper up front cost, particularly with the big ones, no gen to buy etc.

Have I left out anything?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-27-2011 11:42 PM  6 years agoPost 202
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Great advise Mark.

Nitro pluses for me...

Less field equipment.
Longer flights.
More practical.
No big lipo dangers.
Always ready to go at a moments notice.
80% head room for improvement in efficiency.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-27-2011 11:49 PM  6 years agoPost 203
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

80% head room for improvement in efficiency.
What do you mean?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-27-2011 11:50 PM  6 years agoPost 204
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

E guys like to claim nitro gets only 20% efficiency.
That leaves 80% to improve on

While E is about maxed out.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-27-2011 11:54 PM  6 years agoPost 205
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OK,

Actually, gas cars are about 20%, while glow(Nitro) is more like 10%...even more room to improve!

There is just so much energy available in liquid fuel that helps make up for the eff. difference...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:12 AM  6 years agoPost 206
MichiganFlyer

rrElite Veteran

Lansing,MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I love a great debate but electric wins hands down.(for expanding the comunity)
The 450 electric heli has brought more guys into the heli community than any other heli. Now wether they go nitro or electric after that is there choice. And I think once they can hover and have seen each fly they have already made there choice.
Turning each to the other is a futile waste of energy.
Of course great information comes out out of these debates as we learn what is involved with each aspect of the hobby.
I might by a gasser as my next heli for the engine sound.

Friends don't encourage friends to fly helis! It can cause part shortages.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:13 AM  6 years agoPost 207
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here's some for your list.
Nitro is more environmentally friendly. Renewable...Green.
Nitro is Made in the USA. Or, I should say it is usually locally produced...to include our international members.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:19 AM  6 years agoPost 208
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

1 thing thats not mentioned is :

you can't kill a nitro doing tic tocs indefinately, with electric if the ESC holds out then the battery gets toasted or you land in 2 minutes

the electric motor itself might be capable of high torque but the rest of it is so-so.

hopefully over the winter things will improve for the e-heli's

" Team Protoast "

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:20 AM  6 years agoPost 209
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Very good point Michiganflyer...that's one I hadn't considered. I have regarding the size...Nitro doesn't scale down well at all, only up. Bringing in new people certainly credits electrics as well.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:36 AM  6 years agoPost 210
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nitro being alot slower and less powerful does allow me to practice moves I'm not as confident at. Having alot more time to think from point A to B. Then perfect goto electric twice fast and then it just shows presentation wise. Yea I can tic toc all day on nitro low to but it's happening slow. If your learning that could be good but re adjust your timing for more power on e side. There's a positive for Nitros with what I've experimented with lately.

A local fellows wife who is learning to tic toc just last weekend on her 600se tic toc'd a full 7 minutes on her 3850mah 6s x 2 packs 3 packs in a row with room to spare in packs. Power solid at 1800 rpm on that machine as well. Setup, collective management and variables always play a role.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:37 AM  6 years agoPost 211
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'll give the recruiting badge to the 450 electrics as well.lol...

I actually like the E helis with the 425mm blades and smaller.
Caring for a 2600mAh 6S battery is a totally different animal as a 5000mAh 6S.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:45 AM  6 years agoPost 212
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

At ircha 2011 at HH booth they claimed to have sold 6 mpxs' etc to every Align 450 out there. Was that true don't know. But if it were half true it may be the ultimate lure out there since begginig of hobby.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:55 AM  6 years agoPost 213
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I bet that's true.
A big majority of nitro guys have the MCP X as well as E guys.

The novelty of it is the biggest attraction.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 12:59 AM  6 years agoPost 214
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A couple more for your list Band. Perhaps you could post a tally periodically.

Nitro can hold a higher headspeed (power) without dropping below a tollerable duration. Proven at least for the 600 (2500RPM - 5+ minutes...I've gotten 7 at lower HS's). Not sure if there's an engine for the 700 yet. If CX1 proceeds with the 30 with a 55, he may take the prize for power and duration with the size of the tank on his.

Electrics are better for a quick flight. Can have it all set up, go fly, chuck it back in the car and go.

Nitros are more likely to share the same fuel which can tip the scales on operating costs for multiple helis. I'm actually in the worst position though...only one Nitro and 5 electrics.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 01:02 AM  6 years agoPost 215
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nice point...Every nitro heli in the world can run on the same fuel.

Like that one.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 01:07 AM  6 years agoPost 216
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Some mythbuster realities to add..

.1) an electric "given power is available, AC or genset" and 4 packs at hand xan fly back to back all day long and achieve as much "total" flight time as nitro or surpass it.

2.) if your a beginner or sport flyer an electric can be de tuned / geared to your abilities and provide equal or greater power in feel and presentation as nitro. in doing so individual flight times also can be equal to or in some cases longer. Examples as such several 600se setups. Witnessed several at ircha learning to hover and do basic forward flight, loops, rolls at ircha flying for 13-16 minutes on 4000mah packs

3.) To clarify and correct on one point made about headspeed loss. Electric users need to become familiar with governing headroom. If gearing is calculated properly and proper motor/ pinion selections are done as well packs are to task for your given flight not exceeding 80% mah draw headspeed and power will NOT drop. In cases where this is visible the users gearing/setup is improper/not been optimized.

4.) when flight styles/abilities progress you can often change just a pinion. With large selection of gearing/pinions/motors with electrics you have tons of options to accommodate needs. With nitro you are more limited unless you take on several non manufactured/approved mods, so you must have tools & knowledge to do safely, motor brands differences in such also limited. Remember nitro or electric there is no free lunch in obtaining huge power it's losing flight times or stepping outside of parameters manufacturers state.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 01:45 AM  6 years agoPost 217
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OK, was out working for a while...darned work really gets in the way of our fun huh??
Nitro is more environmentally friendly. Renewable...Green.
Nitro is Made in the USA. Or, I should say it is usually locally produced
That's a good one Bob, but technically your speaking about the juice rather than the container...hardly anything more renewable than electricity...even nitro fuel doesn't hold a candle. And made in USA, all the electricity that I've used is...but your probably right about the container.
Nitros are more likely to share the same fuel which can tip the scales on operating costs for multiple helis.
That's a good point too Bob, your less likely to be concerned about getting helis that share fuel(15% or 30%), than helis that share batts.
if your a beginner or sport flyer an electric can be de tuned / geared to your abilities and provide equal or greater power in feel and presentation as nitro. in doing so individual flight times also can be equal to or in some cases longer.
When I said this:
1. Long flight times.
I should have specified with high HS's (2000+)
I know E's still have excellent power even at low HS, but a glow ship on 30% at 2000 HS has better snap than an E at, say 1750 HS. Plus at that low HS the tail blows out easier. But longer tail blades may help.
All that's needed to increase FT on N's is a bigger tank, like they did on the new Whiplash N. But 5.5 mins on my 700's is great for me...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 01:53 AM  6 years agoPost 218
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

True and one thing that often gets ignored is relevance of flight time when ability or aggressiveness rather is added. Example: myself and friend both have 600Ns exact setups to the T literally on purpose for testing and ease purposes he flies 7:50 seconds and lands there is about a few captions left in tank, I land at same amount at 5:55, timers gone off and that's it.

Now one other and this is honest in winter nitro performs far better then summer which is why I have some Nitros still, lots of winter here and the power increases by 10-15% by "guess" at least in feel it does.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 01:56 AM  6 years agoPost 219
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That's a good point too Bob, your less likely to be concerned about getting helis that share fuel(15% or 30%), than helis that share batts.
That point is moot as you need fuel for both helis, they will each still burn it...so twice the fuel consumption or buy two batteries.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-28-2011 02:05 AM  6 years agoPost 220
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Now one other and this is honest in winter nitro performs far better then summer which is why I have some Nitros still, lots of winter here and the power increases by 10-15% by "guess" at least in feel it does.
Yes, that's a big plus for nitro, cold weather flying. I noticed when my lipo's are cold they do not perform as well. However, I'm wondering if I could get really good performance out of them if I kept them warm...after all I am running a gen there. A little more hassle, but not much, just a warming plate sitting there on the table.
What do you think?

Ron, Bob's talking about several different sizes of helis that take different size packs...Nitro heli's, .30, .50, .90, and 1.20 all take the same fuel...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 23 pages [ <<    <     9      10     ( 11 )     12      13     NEXT    >> ] 21111 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Electric power systems VS. Nitro power systems
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 23  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, October 17 - 11:04 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online