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HomeTurbine✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › PHT3 start failure
04-06-2012 11:34 AM  9 years ago
Richard

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***************************Latest update******************************

I changed the Temp probe this morning and recalibrated. The turbine started 2nd attempt, Next attempt started 1st time!, next attempt started 2nd time and the 3rd attempt started 4th time?

Then I had to stop as the rain started

I have all mixes inhibited in my 12FG Tx, fail safes are disabled.

I am using channel 6 which is asigned to a rotary dial on the Tx, I have been using a one channel start for the last 3 years without a problem. The GSU states aux channel disabled, Lipo battery, propane start, sequence etc.

Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-06-2012 05:08 PM  9 years ago
nitro fun

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I got a few suggestions ,
Did you send in your fuel pump with your turbine when it was checked out? If your fuel pump is not turning properly at low voltage it won't start.
Mine stuck because of not being used so With fuel lines disconnected I connected the fuel pump directly to the battery for a few seconds to spin it up.

Maybe mix up some fresh fuel. And see how it starts.

Why do you have the turbine on a slider to start it. its suppose to be on a switch as far as I know.

It makes no scenes to me for that thing staring on its own and not turning off??

I would do some tests. Run the turbine at idle then turn off the reciver to see what it dose. Then start it again and turn off the Transmitter.

When it wont turn off do you still have control over the servos...

If you sent in your complete turbine and they say it worked properly the only difference is fuel. And reciver.
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04-06-2012 05:10 PM  9 years ago
nitro fun

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Connect you rotary dial channel to a servo and test it maybe you wore out that pot on the radio. After three years of use
and it is scratchy like a old radio.

Assign channel 6 to a switch
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04-06-2012 05:16 PM  9 years ago
nitro fun

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Make sure you hold the propane can to warm it up before you start if it is cold you will loose pressure In it.
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04-06-2012 07:29 PM  9 years ago
munkey nuts

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i had an sph5, there was a short on the wire for the starter motor. it was causing the motor to not spin fast enough for the turbine to start. sometimes it did and sometimes it didnt. connect the gsu and see how fast the turbine is running when its starting. others may know what its supposed to be. i cant remember what it used to say on the gsu after it didnt start.

gaz
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04-07-2012 12:02 AM  9 years ago
Richard

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Hi Nitro fun,
The complete turbine, pump, ECU, cables were sent back to Jetcat. The rotary dial should be fine as I tried using one of the others on Tx and on another Tx and I still had the same problem. I will try out connecting a servo to channel 6 and see what happens.

Hi munkey nuts,

The starter does not turn at all, no gas enters the chamber either. The cables to the starter motor have been checked and were OK.

Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-07-2012 08:21 AM  9 years ago
nitro fun

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The next thing I would check with two volt
Meters at the same time .voltage at the starter motor and voltage at the propane solinoid and maybe a third meter on the pump then try several starts.
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04-07-2012 09:33 AM  9 years ago
Richard

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Hi,

I tested both solinoids using the GSU and they do open and close.

I busy working over the next few days, so it may be later next week before I have time to try anything else.

Richard
Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-07-2012 11:02 AM  9 years ago
munkey nuts

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when i had my sph5, i sent it away for service and they upgraded the ecu with new software. when i got it back the governor wouldnt hold the headspeed. i rang them and they said must be problem with the ecu. i sent the ecu back then when i received it back all was fine.
so even when they test the turbine in germany, could still be fault when they give it you back.

gaz
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04-07-2012 01:43 PM  9 years ago
Richard

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I had the ECU upgraded to Ver6 by Jetcat. I also tried another ECU and still had the same problem.

I will get to the bottom of this.

Modtron has been a great help.
Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-07-2012 09:50 PM  9 years ago
Héli Suisse

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Modtron has been a great help.
Yes indeed Nigel is a great guy
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04-17-2012 04:14 PM  9 years ago
Richard

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Scottish Borders, U.K.

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*************************** Update ***********************************

I have been having some success starting the turbine recently, it will start although it can be the 2nd, 3rd or 4th attempt. I have not changed anything in my Tx. I am now using a new batch of fuel although I would not think it would make much difference to the start motor turning as I'm sure it cant tell if the fuel has just ben mixed or been sitting for weeks in a drum?

A couple of times today after getting the turbine to start it shut down within a few seconds with the GSU showing: OC : Low RPM

The turbine battery is OK according to the GSU. The turbine will still start 1st time every time using the GSU ?

Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-17-2012 05:25 PM  9 years ago
seattle_helo

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Seattle, WA USA

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Well, we've gone through this a couple of times on this thread but the key point here is that it always starts the 1st time using the GSU. You have mentioned this from the beginning. Because of this, the problem is unlikely to be from fuels, the fuel pump, temp probe or other ancillary gear. Logically it would be isolated to either the ECU or the RX/TX. Richard, have you looked at the servo monitor in the TX during a start to see what value is being transmitted? If your OC with this problem has always been RC OFF then the ECU is either faulty or it is in fact getting an unintentional signal from the TX or RX to shut down. Did you try moving the throttle from the slider to a switch just for testing? No reason you can't use a slider or poti (I do) but just for testing it would be worth trying. Set up a three position switch, re-learn the RC on the ECU making sure the PWM values look good and then see how that does.
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04-17-2012 07:44 PM  9 years ago
Richard

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Hi,

I have tried using a two channel setup using the throttle stick and the trim switch and had the same problem. I have not tried using a three postion switch. I will try using that setup this week if I can find time?

I looked at the sevo monitor on the Tx, at the off postion the bar graph shows fully down, idle postion shows no bar graph and full throttle is shows fully up.
Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-17-2012 08:14 PM  9 years ago
Héli Suisse

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Geneva Switzerland

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Hi Richard,

Have you tried what Andy (navzptc) proposed, i.e. using a servo tester plugged on the throttle line of the ECU? Then you check on the ECU menu the throttle position in the RC-Check Menu: Throttle % as well as the Stick Pulse msec.

If necessary redo a RC Learn procedure using the servo tester as a substitute for the Rx input.

That way you'll isolate the Tx/Rx components, while checking for the Throttle input line from the JR cable usually used on the Rx/ECU connection. If you can start the turbine with the same reliability as with the GSU, then as seattle_helo said, the problem doesn't come from the ancillaries but rather from weird signal from the Tx/Rx transmission chain. If you encounter some problems there, you can start suspecting the quality of the JR plug, cable and connection to the electronic board in the ECU. A faulty solder holding the wires to the printed circuit could create such erratic electronic behavior.
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04-17-2012 11:56 PM  9 years ago
Richard

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Hi,

I don't own a servo tester but I will see if I can get a hold of one.
When you talk about the stick pulse, do you mean the reading that is displayed on the GSU when you learn RC?
Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-18-2012 07:18 AM  9 years ago
seattle_helo

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Yes, those are the pulse width.
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04-18-2012 07:46 AM  9 years ago
Richard

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What readings for the pulse width should I be looking for?

Oh **** ! this is going to be expensive?
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04-19-2012 01:21 AM  9 years ago
seattle_helo

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Seattle, WA USA

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Offhand I don't recall the numbers but what's most important is what they are relative to one another. When you're in the process of Learn RC you set the off/idle/full values. When you do this make sure the displayed number stays fairly consistent. It might vary a little as the pulse width changes a small amount. But you don't want any large jumps or jitter which would indicate a radio problem. And also be sure the three values are sufficiently separated. That's pretty much assured because it would not accept them if they were too close- i.e. the travel range of the channel was too short.
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04-19-2012 02:03 AM  9 years ago
navzptc

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Richard,

For info I have set my 3 way switch to 0, 40 & 100% throttle and works fine - Also gives a nice separation in pulse count between the various switch positions as mentioned by seattle_helo.

Andy
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HomeTurbine✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › PHT3 start failure
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