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06-06-2011 01:44 AM  8 years ago
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JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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Furion6 Wobbles...
Hey guys,

Got the bird out for her first few flights, and while setting up the FBL system and everything else was pretty straightforward for a first time FBL guy, I ran into an issue that I can't track down.

My setup is as follows: Furion6 FBL, Microbeast FBL system, Scorpion HKIII-4035-560KV, 10S lipo, 12t pinion, Castle Ice80HV, 8717's on cyclic, BLS251 tail.

When spooling up the heli seems smooth, but then once I lift off the landing skids start shaking left and right. It is a medium to fast wobble, but no buzzing. Maybe back and forth 3-4 times per second. Tail fin isn't buzzing or anything.

I thought initially it was too low headspeed, but after trying 1800, 1900, 2000 and 2050, I am convinced it isn't headspeed. Then, I thought maybe I had the gain on the BeastX too high or something, so I turned down pots 1 and 2 on the Beast. No difference. THen I thought maybe I got an unbalanced set of main blades (Radix 600mm FBL). I took the main and tail blades off and then spooled up and I could see the head button wobbling a little, but not like it was a bent main shaft, it was sort of inconsistent. So I think I have it narrowed down to something inside the rotor head, but I really took my time building the head and I have built several helis in the past (maybe 8 or 9) so I would like to think I know my way around a heli build...

Has anyone run into this problem and what was the solution, I really dont think I messed anything up in the head, and everything is brand new... But everything sort of points to the head being unbalanced somehow...

Anybody have any suggestions??
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06-06-2011 01:49 AM  8 years ago
DGS

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Hamburg, NY

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Jeff,
Being a new build, your feathering shaft may not have centered in the hub. Did you grease the shaft when you assembled the head? I tried my 55 dry and it shook like crazy. Greased the feathering shaft and now it's good.

Dave S.
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06-06-2011 01:51 AM  8 years ago
seldred

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Newnan, GA

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I am running a similar set up with mine. beast fbl, 10S, 13T pinion and scorpion 4035-560 hkIII. On spool up I notice a slight wobble but once the head speed gets up there it all goes away. My gain in my transmitter is set at 76 and I have not made any adjustment to my pots at all. They are all horizontal.

Since the vibration seems to be somewhere in your head try taking the head button off and see if it is still there?? or maybe increase your head speed a little. my idle 2 is at 78% giving the gov in the jive 80hv room to work and I am running a constant 2400RPM (give or take a few rpms)
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06-06-2011 01:53 AM  8 years ago
cbaquol

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Phoenix, MD

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Try bumping up the headspeed a little higher, most people I believe run it at 2200rpm + (inclding my self) depending on flying style ofcourse. Grease the dampners and let them break in a little. And maybe then you can back the headspeed back down if you so wish. If you do find something "off" in the head, let MA know and they will be happy to help you out. Baltimore Boyz
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06-06-2011 04:03 AM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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DGS: Thanks for the suggestion, I will try greasing the feathering shaft. Looking at the FBL Head instruction sheet it says "grease is not necessary to install the head axle through the dampers", but maybe it would help the shaft find true center or something... I'm not really sure how it would not be centered in the hub if I have both bolts tightened down inside the blade grips, but maybe something weird going on in there that I don't quite understand...

Seldred, I will try spooling it up with and without the head button and see if there is any difference.

As far as raising the headspeed more, I think in order to run 2100 or higher I would have to run the 13t pinion, but I have heard that it doesn't work all that well with the CC ICE80HV on 10s... Maybe I will give that a try if these other things don't work.

Thanks all for the replies. Keep the ideas coming. I will try to get it out tomorrow and see if things smooth out a little.
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06-06-2011 04:11 AM  8 years ago
seldred

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Newnan, GA

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Good luck! Hope you find the problem quick and get it solved. This heli is such a joy to fly and everyone at the field always seems to stop whatever they are doing to watch it.
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06-06-2011 04:26 AM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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Well, just got done taking the spindle/dampeners out and greasing with Tri-Flow Grease. Only problem noted was very fine rubber shavings in the little grooves towards the outside of the feathering shaft. Very small amount, maybe 1/2 the diameter of a piece of thread, presumably just from tightening everything down and tight tolerances between the shaft/dampeners/hub, etc. Nothing that really concerned me. Thrust bearings still packed nicely with grease, no notchy feelings in any bearings or anything out of the ordinary.

I did notice how much easier everything slid around with just a dab of grease, so hopefully that will help everything center up nicely. I will try the other things mentioned tomorrow or tuesday and report back.

Thanks again everyone!
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06-06-2011 04:29 AM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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Thanks for the support Seldred. I am really looking forward to getting everything dialed in. It seems like it is going to be really nimble and have TONS of power. Good times!!
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06-06-2011 05:06 PM  8 years ago
Ace4

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Chandler, AZ

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My F6 has some wobble during spoolup, but it disappears somewhere around 1600 rpm. What type of surface are you taking off from? You may want to try taking off from something softer, or putting those rubber skid stops to help cut down on ground resonance.

I'm running mine on 10s/4035-560/ice80hv with the 13t pinion at 2200 governed. I originally just ran the 12t pinion ungoverned, 100% throttle, but the headspeed was excessive early in flight (was hitting 2500rpm sometimes). Some folks are even running the 14t pinion to get 2300-2400rpm governed.
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06-06-2011 05:16 PM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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I am taking off from asphalt, but the wobble only in flight, everything spools up butter smooth... Spool down is wobbly though, so maybe I should try some skid stops, but I don't really like to use them because you can't slide an auto, and the tail kicks a little when you lift off...

2500 seems a bit crazy, but I wouldn't mind 2250 or so. Seems like everyone is having good luck at those headspeeds. I guess I might try the 13t after I get everything broken in. Too bad I bought the RevCo 12t...
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06-06-2011 05:17 PM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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Ace,

What kind of max amperage are you pulling with your setup?
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06-07-2011 01:34 AM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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update
Well, just got back from doing a few flights. Much better at higher head speed and after lubing the dampeners and feathering spindle. I had my RPMs set at 1900/2000/2100 and the wobble was there at 1900 but less than before, and then 2000 was better and 2100 was even better, so it seems like whatever is causing the wobble either decreases with higher headspeed or is outside of some harmonic range that it was in before.

Still not completely satisfied, so I will keep troubleshooting for now and maybe tinker with the settings on the Beast as well. Also going to double check for some kind of vibration transferring to the Beast sensor when the motor spools up...

Did a few power climbouts and holy crap does this bird get up and go! Can't wait to see what it looks like @ 2200, which I think is going to be my target headspeed.
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06-07-2011 02:31 AM  8 years ago
flyfish

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New Jersey

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i have a furion 6 also and have not flown it yet. i was think of getting a furion 6 or logo 600??? love the way the furion 6 looks and MA has great service but love the way the logo flies with low head speed. slow and graceful and long flight times!!!!

i to have been reading a lot about a low head speed wobble (1900 - 2100 is not so low of a head speed !! ) i hope this get straitened out i am thinking that i made the wrong choose????
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06-07-2011 03:17 AM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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flyfish

I haven't really looked closely at the Logos, but I wouldn't start regretting your Furion purchase just yet. I have been really impressed with the parts quality of the Furion and really enjoyed the build. With the Furion you get carbon and aluminum everything, and a source of parts and customer support right here in America. There is definitely some value in that.

While I have been a little frustrated with this wobble issue, I am sure in the long run it will just be a minor little hiccup in an otherwise fantastic helicopter that I will enjoy immensely. As with any project you have to put in a little effort up front to dial things in a little. After all this is a hobby and I enjoy a little tinkering... don't we all?

I will hopefully get the wobble figured out and be on my way to some fun summer flying pretty soon!
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06-07-2011 03:30 AM  8 years ago
MinAirUSA

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Bavaria, Germany

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The Furion 6 was designed with higher head speeds in mind. Both it and the 55, really perform best around 2150 to 2250. If you're in to lower head speeds we do have some softer dampers available Miniature Aircraft
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06-07-2011 03:31 AM  8 years ago
flyfish

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New Jersey

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i understand that and enjoy working on my heli (some times it feels like i work and tinker more then fly!!!)

i have not seen or heard of any furion 6 with a low head speed?
oh well i will have to crank it up
it would have been nice to fly with some low head speeds and long flight times?
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06-07-2011 03:45 AM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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So are the stock dampers that come with the FBL head too hard for 2000 or less headspeeds, and would they be causing a low speed wobble at lower headspeeds? If so, can you explain in simple terms what makes this happen, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how dampers could be the cause of the wobble...

Is the 13t pinion the recommended gearing for a HS around 2200, and what sort of amp draw am I likely to see using that gear ratio on 10s? I realize that depends on flying style, battery quality, etc, but maybe you can give me a ballpark number?
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06-07-2011 05:32 AM  8 years ago
seldred

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Newnan, GA

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flyfish- a friend of mine has a logo 600 and I too debated for a long time over the logo 600 and the furion 6. I wound up getting the furion for a number of reasons and because no one I fly with has one. While the logo is unique in its own way, so is the furion. You might not get the lowwwww head speed you want, but I promise you when you get your furion built you will fall in love with it!!! In my opinion it is the most unique and high quality kit on the market, but everyone has their own opinions and preferences.

JeffM1999- I am glad you have had some luck fixing your vibrations. Keep experimenting with the heli and I am sure you will wind up having everything the way you want it. I noticed a small vibration (canopy and tail fin vibrating faster than what I thought was normal) on the first few flights with my furion, but as the main gear broke in that vibration has disappeared. I can only assume the pinion and main gear mesh was causing a slight vibration and has since turned into white powder Keep us updated with everything!
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06-07-2011 03:53 PM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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Funny you mentioned that, because I have been noticing main gear dust as well. I set the mesh using the notbeook paper method, and I don't think it is too tight, I still have a little backlash. But hopefully as the gears break in I will notice things smoothing out even more just like you experienced.
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06-07-2011 03:57 PM  8 years ago
JeffM1999

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Erie, CO

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Hey Seldred,

I was re-reading your first post about your gain and potentiometer settings. Do you mean you have the tail gain set at 76 or some other gain? I think I am set at about 80 in HH and 78 or so in normal, I am at work right now so I am guessing at the numbers, but I noticed that the tail doesn't hold as well as I had hoped with the Beast. Sort of kicks a little on climbout, but doesn't get any better if I increase the gain more.

As far as I remember I didn't set any cyclic gains in the TX, but maybe I am forgetting something. And since I have been having these wobbling issues I have reduced the pots to horizontal as well. I had previously tried to dial them up a little. I prefer crisp stops when doing 4 point rolls or flips, etc. So hopefully I will be able to start increasing those pots once I get the wobble issue solved, because right now it is a little too mushy for my liking when stopping cyclic inputs...
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