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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › help with throttle hover stick position
06-04-2011 06:53 PM  9 years ago
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mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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help with throttle hover stick position
I have been working on my thunder tiger x50 and have it to the point where I am getting more comfortable with it. I am now dealing with getting the throttle set up and having some issues. I have an OS55 in it and have a pitch curve of 10,6,-2 for top, mid and bottom stick. My throttle curve is set to 100, 75,56,30, 0 for a 5-point throttle curve. Currently, my heli will hover with a little over 1/4 stick. I am not sure what to change to get it to hover at say 1/2 to 3/4 stick. I am not into 3D yet and mainly sport fly, so I don't want to go with a different pitch. So, any suggestions on what to change? Hovering at a little over 1/4 stick seems odd. My raptor 30 hovers at about 3/4 stick with about the same pitch.

Maybe my OS55 needs tuned more. It has the 2 needles and is tough to tune. If I drop the throttle stick after landing, I get the hanging RPM which is typical of a lean motor. However, when I feel the backplate, I can hold my finger there for over 10 seconds and my finger still doesin't burn. Not sure if this is all related.
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06-04-2011 07:07 PM  9 years ago
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Richen up low just a little on motor also if your curves are not rite or mechanical setup this will cause motor to hard tune . On throttle and pitch curves put 0 to 100 % liner then mechanically set up swash and pitch to be 0 deg at 1/2 stick ,measure all oposing links so that they are the same lingth using a link tool or caliper.On carb barrel the line up the marks so center on carb is lined up at 1/2 stick ,do this mechanicaly.After you do all this fold blades back so tips are close and see if they line up if not adjust pitch links equally untill they do.This is a good start so you can hover and tune .On TX if you hover and hit throttle hold and let heli settle to ground without lowereing stick look at white lines on TX you should be 1/2 way to first line/dot depending on TX . This is caveman style but works if you dont have or want to use all the setting up tools.

After you get done machanical setup, you can adjust settings in TX to your style .
I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)
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06-04-2011 08:02 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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All your pitch curves should be 0 degrees at half throttle.
All of them should be identical from half to full throttle.

Switching from normal to idle up to throttle hold should never change the pitch of the blades in an upright orientation.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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06-04-2011 08:52 PM  9 years ago
TheWoodCrafter

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Costa Mesa, Ca.

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Your setup will work but I think most people today set up 0 degrees at mid stick and use a U shaped throttle curve on idle up.

But to hover at mid-stick lower the collective setting (your 6 degrees) to maybe 5 or less. Test and maybe you may need to change your throttle curve (lower) so you don't over-speed the head.
Thanks, TheWoodCrafter
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06-04-2011 09:44 PM  9 years ago
nickt919

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New Orleans, Louisiana

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Try this site....There should be everything you need here to correctly set up an RC heli.

http://raptortechnique.com/
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06-04-2011 11:00 PM  9 years ago
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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Thanks. I want to keep my mid-stick at 6 degrees pitch since I really only fly sport right now. I don't do any idle ups. I just did some figure 8's and it flew pretty good. May let it go for a little while before I go messing with it. Thanks
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06-04-2011 11:43 PM  9 years ago
TheWoodCrafter

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Costa Mesa, Ca.

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I was just suggesting that you learn the right way now so you don't have to retrain your muscle memory again. Because if you ever want to do loops and rolls, not even inverted, you will have to learn with 0 at mid stick. Your collective resolution is so different with 0 at mid stick that it will be difficult to change over. It is hard enough to learn it the first time, why have to learn it a second time.Thanks, TheWoodCrafter
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06-05-2011 12:03 AM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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If you leave 6 degrees of pitch at half stick,the heli will come off the ground at a really low throttle position.
The only way to prevent it is to lower the throttle curve to the point of being crazy unstable.
Having 6 degrees of pitch and not enough RPM's to lift off will cause tip overs galore.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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06-05-2011 01:20 PM  9 years ago
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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I was just suggesting that you learn the right way now so you don't have to retrain your muscle memory again. Because if you ever want to do loops and rolls, not even inverted, you will have to learn with 0 at mid stick. Your collective resolution is so different with 0 at mid stick that it will be difficult to change over. It is hard enough to learn it the first time, why have to learn it a second time.
You make a real good point I didn't think of. I want to learn loops, so you are saying to do this, I need 0 at mid stick? I guess with throttle and pitch curves, it would be easy to try another setup. If I do set mid stick for 0, what would be recommended for top and bottom stick? I would like to stay away from setting up any idle ups though. With a pitch at 0 at mid stick, would this work for basic sport flying as well? Thanks
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06-05-2011 06:43 PM  9 years ago
TheWoodCrafter

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Costa Mesa, Ca.

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This set up is for sport flying.
I run +12 , 0, -12 but You can easily run 10 at the extremes.
Setting 0 at mid stick you have to use idle up to take advantage of this.
Why stay away from idle up? Here again you need to learn now the way you will eventually be flying, with idle up.

I would never fly around without being in idle up. I don't think it is that safe to do so.

Example if you are just slowly flying around and a gust of wind comes along and you see you helicopter rise to 30ft you would pull collective out to bring it back down. Without idle up you will be dangerously lowering head. You have pulled the stick well below mid-stick, your engine is close to idle, the machine is now coming down and the wind stops, now you are really coming down, you feed collective but you don't have any head speed, the engine is trying to come up to speed but it is too late, your skids just hit the ground and you clip the tail blades. Get used to using idle up every time you fly.

Remember, you will be hovering about 3/4 stick with this setup.

Idle up throttle curve is a U shape. You'll have to set yours up for your machine but something like 100, 75, 60, 75, 100 is what I am suggesting.
Thanks, TheWoodCrafter
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06-05-2011 08:04 PM  9 years ago
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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Somewhat understand, but getting confused. Lets start with the pitch you mentioned as +12 , 0, -12. I guess my first question would be is this what you normally fly around with, hover, land, take off etc?

Next, what exactly is idle up? I know it is flipping the switch to activate different pitch and throttle curves etc, but what position of the switch is "idle up" and is this the +12 , 0, -12? My transmiter does have a 3-position switch.

In your wind example, what is the switch position? Are you flying around with +12 , 0, -12 pitch when the wind hits, i.e. in "idle up"?

To answer your question on why no idle up, is because I just sport fly and it is just another switch to get confused of.

You then mention later that idle up is a throttle curve of 100, 75, 60, 75, 100. So is this the curve you use with +12 , 0, -12?

So when you are landing, you are at bottom stick, full throttle? This doesin't sound right so obviously I missed something.

I think I am getting these all jumbled up.
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06-05-2011 08:10 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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So when you are landing, you are at bottom stick, full throttle? This doesin't sound right so obviously I missed something.
You'll be landing at about 60% throttle in idle up or normal.
You never ever ever want to have to completely cut the throttle to land.

Also,take it out of idle up to land or hit throttle hold.

All the pitch curves need to be the same from 50% throttle and up.

__-__-50-75-100 for all.

Your 3 position switch lets you have 3 sets of curves.

Mine are like this...

NORMAL THROTTLE 0-25-50-75-100
NORMAL PITCH 47-INH-50-75-100

ST1 THROTTLE 100-INH-60-INH-100
ST1 PITCH 0-25-50-75-100

ST2 THROTTLE 100-100-100-100-100(I use a rev limiter instead of a gov)
ST2 PITCH 0-25-50-75-100
I literally never use the word literally right.
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06-05-2011 08:44 PM  9 years ago
TheWoodCrafter

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Costa Mesa, Ca.

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Somewhat understand, but getting confused. Lets start with the pitch you mentioned as +12 , 0, -12. I guess my first question would be is this what you normally fly around with, hover, land, take off etc?
Yes, Most guys use a pitch curve close to this and fly around in idle up 1 or 2. I only use idle up 1 and always fly around in idle up. Flying around in normal is a good way to crash.
Next, what exactly is idle up? I know it is flipping the switch to activate different pitch and throttle curves etc, but what position of the switch is "idle up" and is this the +12 , 0, -12? My transmiter does have a 3-position switch.
The idle up switch on most radios have 3 positions. Off, idle up 1 and idle up 2.
When switch it does activate a different pitch and throttle curve. Again, you can get by very well with only setting up 1 idle up. And to prevent any mistakes set up idle 1 and 2 the same in case you flip the switch too far.
n your wind example, what is the switch position? Are you flying around with +12 , 0, -12 pitch when the wind hits, i.e. in "idle up"?
If you fly around in normal that is what may happen. again, most never fly around in normal but always some form of idle up.
To answer your question on why no idle up, is because I just sport fly and it is just another switch to get confused of.
Get used to it. It is the way to fly. And you need to get used to flipping throttle hold. (an other subject)
You then mention later that idle up is a throttle curve of 100, 75, 60, 75, 100. So is this the curve you use with +12 , 0, -12?
Yes. But if can have differences. Like McKrackin has. 2 different curves. But the idea is not to let the engine go to idle and let the head speed drop too far.
So when you are landing, you are at bottom stick, full throttle? This doesin't sound right so obviously I missed something.
When landing you are at mid stick or less and during the transition from forward to hover you go back up to hover position at about 3/4 stick. You are not at full down stick. That position will suck it to the ground fast.
Thanks, TheWoodCrafter
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06-05-2011 09:11 PM  9 years ago
TheWoodCrafter

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Costa Mesa, Ca.

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Probably the safest curves for a beginner so he doesn't stuff it into the ground by pulling back too far on the collective stick would be -4, 0, 10 for the collective curve and 80, 75, 60, 75, 100 for throttle idle up 1 or some variation of that.

You want to be able to maintain head speed through out the entire stick positions and you want 0 pitch at mid stick, not too much negative at low stick, so you don't get in trouble when you panic and pull the stick back, and a reasonable positive pitch like 10 - 12 at the top so it will fly properly.

Varying the throttle with the collective is supposed to keep the engine running a constant speed when the engine loads up from a higher pitch.
Thanks, TheWoodCrafter
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06-05-2011 09:20 PM  9 years ago
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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Ok, I think I may be understanding. Please see if I am right.

IDLE OFF
with the switch back the whole way, this is in the off position (normal mode). I use this to take off, land, hover and nothing else.

Throttle curve = 0, 25, 50, 75, 100%
Pitch curve = __,__,50, 75, 100 = a pitch curve of -12,0,+12.

IDLE UP 1
with the switch in the middle position. I use this to hover and basic flight such as figure 8's. I will also be set up for loops and rolls.

Throttle curve = 100, 75, 60, 75, 100%
Pitch curve = __,__,50, 75, 100 = a pitch curve of -12,0,+12. (same as normal mode).

IDLE UP 2
set same as idle 1

So, If I understand correctly, use normal mode for take-off, then switch to idle up 1 once in the air. Now, fly around as I have been. Ready to land, get into a hover and switch back to normal mode.

Is this all correct?

Now here are some additional questions:

1. this appears to be dangerous when starting the heli. In off, throttle is at 0, but if mistakenly in idle 1 or 2, the throttle is at 100%. How do you protect from this.

2. I have been reading some places where people fly with the throttle always at say 75% when in an idle up 1 or 2 mode. When do I do this?

3. I guess before I get into setting the idle ups, I could become first confortable with the new pitch and just change my pitch or is this too dangerous with the -12 pitch.

4. I am still hesitant with going the whole way to -12 degress pitch. Seems very different. I can also see getting confused in the air when fliping the switch.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks.
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06-05-2011 09:28 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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You don't have to have 12 degrees of negative pitch in normal mode.

I only have 2 or 3 degrees negative on my heli.
As a matter of fact,I just checked and my normal mode pitch curve is actually 50-50-50-75-100

I have no negative pitch in normal mode.
I spool up in normal and go idle up as soon as it lifts off.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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06-05-2011 09:30 PM  9 years ago
roboto65

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Conroe,TX

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Pitch curve = __,__,50, 75, 100 = a pitch curve of -12,0,+12
Close but no. It should equal 3 or 4,0,12 does that make sense in Regular mode you should have only 3 or 4 degrees of negative pitch just enough to get it down. Then zero at half stick and full pitch at full stick.
Mother Nature strikes again..
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06-05-2011 09:32 PM  9 years ago
roboto65

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Conroe,TX

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@mckrackin you might want to put some negative in there say for a windy day you might not get it down at zero pitch or it will hang.Mother Nature strikes again..
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06-05-2011 09:43 PM  9 years ago
TheWoodCrafter

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Costa Mesa, Ca.

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Ok, I think I may be understanding. Please see if I am right.

IDLE OFF
with the switch back the whole way, this is in the off position (normal mode). I use this to take off, land, hover and nothing else.

Throttle curve = 0, 25, 50, 75, 100%
Pitch curve = __,__,50, 75, 100 = a pitch curve of -12,0,+12.

IDLE UP 1
with the switch in the middle position. I use this to hover and basic flight such as figure 8's. I will also be set up for loops and rolls.

Throttle curve = 100, 75, 60, 75, 100%
Pitch curve = __,__,50, 75, 100 = a pitch curve of -12,0,+12. (same as normal mode).

IDLE UP 2
set same as idle 1

So, If I understand correctly, use normal mode for take-off, then switch to idle up 1 once in the air. Now, fly around as I have been. Ready to land, get into a hover and switch back to normal mode.

Is this all correct?
Close.
See my last post for a suggested safe pitch curve for a beginner.

And the way I fly I don't even have the skid off the ground in normal.
Either take off or landing. I always flip to idle up 1 before take off and flip it off after on the ground.

1. As part of your pre-flight always double check the transmitter switch positions and I always watch the throttle movement when I move the stick.

2. It depends where you are I guess with the learning curve, how you have the setup (throttle position following collective curve) and how lean you have the engine tuned. You can set it up at 75% throttle position at the top. Just make sure your head speed is high enough to be safe.

3. See last post.

4. See last post. I don't flip to idle up switch on while flying. Only on the ground.

You are getting there.
Again I am only suggesting this type of setup now, at the beginning, because you will be going to this in the future. Take it in steps, don't make yourself scared of the machine and practice, practice and practice some more. It will get easier and get to a point where you don't have to think about what to do. With training it will become second nature. You will get to a point where this setup will feel comfortable, because now it may not.
Thanks, TheWoodCrafter
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06-05-2011 09:49 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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@mckrackin you might want to put some negative in there say for a windy day you might not get it down at zero pitch or it will hang.
I don't fly in normal mode for one thing.
My pitch curve in normal on electric helis is 50-50-50-50-50

Also,I fly a Trex 700 and it doesn't get wisked away on a breeze too often
I literally never use the word literally right.
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