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06-03-2011 08:12 PM  9 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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tail issue
It was doing fine before, now all of a sudden I have a wag when in HH mode. Doesn't do it in rate mode. I went thru and looked it over. I can't find anything obvious wrong with it. No crashes and nothing changed. I even played with my gain, went from 49 to 32 with no change at all. It has me stumped!

Trex 450 Pro
Futaba 9254 tail servo
Futaba GY520 gyro
stock tail blades
shaft drive
Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-03-2011 09:18 PM  9 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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does it wag when hovering or when doing a full collective climb? its somtimes best to adjust the gain and testing it by doing full collective climbs and fast sideways flight in both directions. It could be that you just have a defective unit. Test the gyro in another heli and see if it does anything weird. Others here should have specific ideas about the 520. Its rare but it does happen that gyros go bad for no reason.showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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06-03-2011 10:52 PM  9 years ago
Funknrock

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San Marcos, CA

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below 50% gain is rate not HH...
increase to 60% and see what it does.
My crashes are cooler than your flying! ;^)
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06-03-2011 10:53 PM  9 years ago
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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take a look at the tail grips. saw this a few months ago on a 450 Pro - one of the tail grip bolts was coming loose. could also be a bad bearing on the tail grips. could also be something is binding up in the control systems. really sounds mechanical to me - when you go into idle-up mode everything speeds up (usual/typical setup) therefore bearings get more pressure in the tail grips and the control system takes more effort to move.
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06-03-2011 11:00 PM  9 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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below 50% gain is rate not HH...
increase to 60% and see what it does
On the 520, it is still HH mode no matter what the gain is. My HH and rate mode are controlled by a switch, not the gain.
really sounds mechanical to me
My thoughts too. I did find a few minor fixes that could cause the problem. A friend of mine suggested that it may be temperature change. My heli's are in the garage, so it is basically the same temp as the outside. If it does it again, I may let it sit out in the sun for a couple of minutes.
does it wag when hovering or when doing a full collective climb? its somtimes best to adjust the gain and testing it by doing full collective climbs
It was doing it while hovering. Normally a wag is too high of a gain, so I played with it a bit to no prevail.
Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-04-2011 12:35 AM  9 years ago
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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below 50% gain is rate not HH...
increase to 60% and see what it does.
That depends entirely on what radio he's using.
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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06-04-2011 12:53 AM  9 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Well I am stumped. I fixed a few minor things and it is running super smooth. I just can't figure out this stupid wag thing.Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-04-2011 12:56 AM  9 years ago
swoop_g

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Lake Charles, LA USA

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There are thousands of causes of tail wags and it is prolly a combination of a few. Go through and check every bolt, bearing, gear lash, shaft, mount, link, etc, etc, etc. Then go back and check it again. You can try putting a different gyro on and see if that helps then try a different servo. Use the process of elimination until you find the culprit. These things are near impossible to diagnose on a forum without having the heli in front of a competent person. I don't believe there is a short answer to your problem but you will get it and learn something on the way there. Good luck.
Edit: By competent I mean experienced, not meant to insult you.
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06-04-2011 01:23 AM  9 years ago
WJackson

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Smyrna, Delaware

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Loose boom supports, tail slider to grips (check for loctite in bushing), slop?RIP Roman
Bill Jackson
AlignUSA
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06-04-2011 01:48 AM  9 years ago
Individual1

rrApprentice

Florida

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Gain
What pinion do you have on the motor? How many teeth? Put the gain at 55% in Normal and Idle Up. The light should be red on the gyro. So leave your switch for HH on all the time. Normal Throttle Curve = 0/45/65/85/100 and Idle Up 100/100/80/100/100. See what happens. If that doesn't work.. Replace the bearings in the tail.
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06-04-2011 05:11 AM  9 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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I've tried the gain, idle up, changed the tail drive gear, fixed a few other things. Only time it seems to stop is when I put it in rate mode. About the only thing I haven't tried yet is changing the gyro. I really hate to do that because that is a pita process.Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-04-2011 07:03 AM  9 years ago
honda411

rrKey Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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maybe try in rate mode, make sure you get no drift from mechanical setup.

Also, on mine, my tail starting wagging and eventually through a grip and blade(tail)
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06-04-2011 07:07 AM  9 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Doesn't do it in rate mode.
Thanks guy, but I already mentioned that in the first post. I am going to try different tail blades and the tail slider next.
Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-04-2011 10:49 AM  8 years ago
HeliRush27

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Middle of Florida

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Had what seems like the same problem on a heli of mine:

I could set the tail up in rate mode so that it held it's heading very well, basically no drift at all, then flip into HH and immediately it would start to wag.

Tried everything, made sure the entire thing was smooth as silk. Changed tail linkage and drive, changed bearings, tweaked, tightened, stroked, caressed and even told it that I loved it. Each time I'd take it back up and the tail would wag.

As a last resort I changed the Gyro and the wag disappeared, problem solved. Not saying you have the same problem since mine was a GP780, but reading your post it sounds so familiar.
Can't, means "Don't want to"
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06-04-2011 01:50 PM  8 years ago
Individual1

rrApprentice

Florida

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Idle
Yea. When all else fails. It could be the gyro or tail servo. You did mention in the first thread that it was flying fine in Idle Up for a while before any of this happened?
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06-04-2011 02:17 PM  8 years ago
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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It does not sound mechanical to me because it only does the wag in HH mode, not rate mode. Unless the HS changes or gains change when switching modes also, the problem sounds like it is something else. Gyro...maybe.....tail servo.....maybe. Can you slap another tail from another model servo on there easily???Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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06-04-2011 04:11 PM  8 years ago
budz

rrApprentice

las vegas

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i had a 520 that was doing the same thing. here's what i did.

put ball link to the inner most hole of servo arm. then you can increase gain.

try rotating the gyro a full 360 degrees from its present mounted orientation (it's in the manual when you have consistent tail wag.

on the select small heli on the gyro delay (i think it is the second to the last step when you're setting up the gyro)

rebind with the gyro in HH mode

i hope this will help you.
team solo
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06-04-2011 04:30 PM  8 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Yea, it doesn't seem like it is the tail servo because it doesn't do it in rate mode. The wag isn't consistent and it is almost acting like the tail servo isn't keeping up with what is going on. I am going to try to reset/reprogram it and recheck the connections as my next step.Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-04-2011 04:41 PM  8 years ago
Individual1

rrApprentice

Florida

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Resolution
Yea.. Budz brought up a good reminder. Make sure the ball link is close to the center of the servo horn on the tail servo. go over page 25 and 26 in the manual. Very important.
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06-04-2011 07:31 PM  8 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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I have gone over all the mechanical issues that I could find. I have been flying the same setup for quite a while with no issues. I believe my next step is to start digging into the gyro.Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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