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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Gyro & Rudder Issues
06-02-2011 09:19 PM  9 years ago
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bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Gyro & Rudder Issues
My problem is when slowly getting up to speed to lift off, as rpm increases and Trying to lift off the heli starts to spin.

Have done some testing..

Checked all pulleys and also checked belt again, but since rotor does not move it is good.

As for rpm, sorry can't test that.

I have the following components:

Gyro = GY401
RX = RX-611
Servo = Futaba S3003 (I know not the best but it works)
Radio = Sanwa 6000 Sport

Also I have held the main rotors and try to turn the tail rotor. Looks okay and does not slip or turn.

Have also checked and tested:

Belt drive
- check that the pulleys are not slipping on their respective shafts.

Torque Tube
- check that the pulleys are not slipping on their respective shafts and if there's a bearing carrier in the boom that breaks the continuity of the drive, it's not slipping.

Checked Pitch and is off a little, at 1.5 or 2 when at 50% throttle.

What settings should the radio be at for a better setup? I am using basically the default manual settings for now, but I think the REVO or something needs adjust, don't know what to do on adjustments.

I am a newbie and have done alot of reading and also watched a number of videos from Finless to try and learn more.

Can anyone help me out on trying other settings to stop the spinning before lift?

Thanks
Bill
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06-02-2011 09:26 PM  9 years ago
mr dan

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Stockton Calif

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Gyro = GY401
RX = RX-611
Servo = Futaba S3003 (I know not the best but it works)
Radio = Sanwa 6000 Sport
I hate to say this but no it does not work. that servo is not a tail servo, at 4.8v its rated at 0.23sec. at 6.0v its 0.19sec no where near what a tail servo should be , at best your tail servo should be 0.09sec. add to the fact this servo you have is an analog its frame rate is slower.
"R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation
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06-02-2011 09:30 PM  9 years ago
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon Where there is liquid sunshine!

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Edited!
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06-02-2011 09:37 PM  9 years ago
mr dan

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Stockton Calif

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what direction is the tail spinning?"R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation
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06-02-2011 09:39 PM  9 years ago
swoop_g

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Lake Charles, LA USA

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Short answer: gyro/tail servo combo. Your problem lies there. Check and recheck your gyro settings. This is part of building model helicopters, finding out whats wrong. A HUGE part. Enjoy working on your heli cause you will be doing a bunch of it, we all do.
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06-02-2011 09:39 PM  9 years ago
bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Hello Mr Dan,

Thanks for the comments, only saying it is not the best, but it was working, not meaning it worked properly.

With using 35Mhz and GY401, what servo should I be using?

Can I use a TowerPro MG995 or Hitec HS-525BB?

I can't go buy right now and have these servos in my kit as spares, just don't know enough about what should be using or not?

Appreciate the advice, so you think this may be causing the issue more likely?

Cheers

Bill
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06-02-2011 09:44 PM  9 years ago
bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Forgot to mention it is running CCW when it starts doing the spin, you can fight it with the stick a little, but of course will never get off the ground properly without crashing.

At least I am learning now, just the challenge and finding the problem feels good.

Cheers

Bill
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06-02-2011 09:58 PM  9 years ago
bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Found the specs for the Hitec HS-525BB

Speed: 4.8V: 0.17 sec/60°
6.0V: 0.13 sec/60°

Also the specs for the TowerPro MG995

Speed: 4.8V: 0.20 sec/60°

So the Hitec is faster, is it good enough to try then?

Cheers

Bill
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06-02-2011 10:06 PM  9 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Bill the gyro is reversed causing the tail to spin as its compensating the wrong direction. You need to make sure it counters the main rotor Torque.SPARTANRC Team pilot
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06-02-2011 10:09 PM  9 years ago
mr dan

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Stockton Calif

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reverse the gyro correction direction. to test this is siple. disconnect 2 of your 3 wires to the motor from the ESC, now you can test without the fear of an unexpected spool up.
Ok that said, when you give right rudder, the tail blades leading edge should point towards the tail case conversely giving left rudder the leading edge should point away from the tail case. After reversing the gyro, not the rudder on the tx. The Gyro should have a reverse button or switch, once you flip that to check for proper tail correction by the gyro center the tail slider using your rudder stick input, then move the tail by hand to the right nose left, look at the tail blades and the leading edge should point in the opposite direction. Gain settings for setup should start out around 35% for rate and 60% for Heading hold,. both the servo horn and the tail slider should be at 90* to the boom when centered.
"R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation
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06-02-2011 10:11 PM  9 years ago
mr dan

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Stockton Calif

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That servo may work but not as well as a faster tail servo would. you will always fight off drifting to one or the other side."R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation
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06-02-2011 10:11 PM  9 years ago
bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Hi Barney,

So in the Sanwa 6000 Sport radio, do I go to the "G" setting and change "REV" to "NORM"?

I assume this is what you mean for the Gyro in reverse. Also the "RU" is set at "REV", does this need to match the "G" setting?

Appreciate the advice and help here.

Cheers

Bill
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06-02-2011 10:50 PM  9 years ago
budz

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las vegas

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gyro direction is done on the gyro itself not in the radio. go into your 611 program and reverse it thereteam solo
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06-03-2011 12:07 AM  9 years ago
wifeorheli

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reno, nevada usa

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is it belt drive? if so the tail spinning in the right direction this happened to me once
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06-03-2011 01:22 AM  9 years ago
Johnhuck

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Discovery Bay Ca

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budz. I think he is running the 401 with the Rx 611.AMA 355827 Trex600 pro.FBL 3x9452 cycle 9254 throttle.SK540 BLS 251tail OS55 Pb pipe 9303 2.4
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06-03-2011 08:03 AM  9 years ago
bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks for reply here on my issue.

The Hirobo Shuttle Z+ is what I am running with the RX-611 and GY401.

The heli is belt driven tail of course, now that I told you what heli I am working on, forgot to mention before.

I will check the tail belt, but believe it is okay, feel no drag when turning by hand, so if it was twisted in the boom I think there would be some drag.

Have checked the modes and verified that it is in Head Hold and the Red Indicator light goes solid after initialization.

The one thing I noticed was when turning up throttle the tail rotor will go to the right and not stay on center, even after going back to 0% throttle, very strange.

Also have been told now to turn off my REVO Mix for this setup.

Regards

Bill
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06-03-2011 02:47 PM  9 years ago
DAVE62278

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Ridgetown, Ontario, Canada

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You should check that the REVO mix is not active while your gyro is in heading hold mode. I'm not familiar with your TX, but if it doesn't allow you to turn off REVO for HH but still have it for non-HH. Simply enter 0's in the REVO mix for all collective stick positions, that's set to be active when your gyro is in HH.
Also, I use to fly a ZXX, and with the rudder servo mounted up front, I would pop the ball link of the rudder control rod from the servo wheel. Then I would slide it back and forth checking that changing the tail blade pitch was very smooth and as friction-free as I could make it.

Hope this helps,
Dave
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06-03-2011 03:36 PM  9 years ago
bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Engine slows down after half Throttle
Hello Men,

Have now adjusted radio and turned down REV Mix to all 0% settings and now the gyro and rotor work properly and have lift now.

This is a big improvement and can get it up a couple feet slightly after half throttle. Now have found another issue with the motor rpm.

The next issue I am working on is the engine speed seems to decrease after that when trying to increase for speed, the engine bogs down and goes down in rpm. Have adjusted the mixture screw to about 2 turns out and will try both sides of this from 1.5 up to 3 and see how she responds.

Can someone give me any advice on what else to check on that problem please?

Cheers

Bill
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06-03-2011 04:00 PM  9 years ago
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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I have used a Hitec HS525 as the tail servo with a 401 gyro. That combo works pretty well. The Futaba 3003 should also work but probably not as well as the Hitec 525

Having said that if your heli is spinning on lift off then here's what I would check:

1. Gyro direction. with the heli sitting on the bench move the tail one direction. see if the tail blades move the proper direction to compensate for the tail move.

2. Servo direction. Move the rudder stick on the radio and note the direction that the tail blades move. See if that's giving the expected tail move.

3. Tail blades spinning the right direction. If the belt has the wrong twist it'll cause the tail blades to spin the wrong direction and everything will be backwards.

4. Head speed. If you are trying to lift off with too low of a headspeed then the tail may not be spinning fast enough to compensate for the torque.

this might help a lot

http://www.raptortechnique.com/gy401-rd6000.htm
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06-03-2011 05:43 PM  9 years ago
DAVE62278

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Ridgetown, Ontario, Canada

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Do you have a pitch gauge? Could be too much pitch for the throttle setting.
Have a look at the exhaust. to see how much smoke it's producing. An overly rich carb setting produces a lot of smoke but a less power. Some fuels smoke more than others, so you should also check the temp. You should be able to hold your finger on the bottom plate for a count of 4. TOO hot indicates your running it to lean(small or no smoke produced) which also causes a reduction in power as too much heat builds in the engine. It doesn't have to run lean for very long before you damage the piston and liner, so be careful. Don't ask me how I know this!!
There are many things or a combination of many that could be keeping you from flying. Believe me when I say this. There is a wealth of knowledge and help to be found here, and everyone very eager to help with any question you have, but you would benefit greatly from someone in your area that you could meet with and have them look at your heli and hopefully take it for a test flight.

Hope this helps, and keep your questions coming
Dave
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