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06-02-2011 06:24 AM  9 years ago
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CalmAir

rrApprentice

Camarillo, Ca.

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Out of Control!
So I'm practicing side-in at a little field I fly at this morning with a 450. It's windy, but even so I'm trying to figure out why I'm having some difficulty. IN A FLASH! I lose it. I guess I inadvertently gave throttle in the process as the heli is now 20 feet behind and above me.

Thank God I'm able to save it, but when I'm only probably 2 or 3 feet from flying into a cement light post!!
This was the first time I was completely out of control and it freaked me out. Also the first time flying the heli behind me.

What is the best thing to do when this happens? I'm thinking "save" if I'm by myself, and "throttle hold" if it's anywhere even remotely close to a person. It all happens so fast.

Is there an option I'm not thinking of?
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06-02-2011 06:47 AM  9 years ago
Blade_Helis

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New York

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I would say if you are at a point where you find it hard to keep the heli in front of the flight line, then practice orientation hovering on the sim. I would definitely rather crash into something(street,lamp,etc) than a person. Good luck and don't give up.
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06-02-2011 07:19 AM  9 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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If it goes behind you, turn around! My flying field faces East into the sun so I tend to fly more to the North. Once in a while, it gets really close or slightly over the pits. Just calm down and bring it back. Whatever you do, don't panic and stick with it. I try to fight it to the end (as possible) and have saved it many times.Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-02-2011 08:01 AM  9 years ago
CalmAir

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Camarillo, Ca.

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Thanks guy's. I guess my real question is anytime you do make a little slip (like inadvertently giving throttle). What are your options?

Actually, I did turn as I had to see the bird, but it felt strange and out of position, maybe it's because at that moment I was trying to regain control in what felt like an awkward situation.

You can practice on the sim until the cows come home, but practicing with a small heli in the wind is a very different experience.

I'm in that sort of dangerous state, where I can fly pretty good on the sim, 3D, etc. and am now practicing different moves on the field. (Almost always by myself)

I'm really just wondering how others handle it when they do lose it. I know this morning won't be my last. Not panicking is huge.
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06-02-2011 08:31 AM  9 years ago
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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I can relate about being in a transistion to another level. I can do a lot on the sim, but don't do everything on the actual heli. Typically when I can do it very comfortable on the sim, then I try it on the real thing. The only thing the sim doesn't teach you is the pucker factor. I can't quite remember where JPEE lives, but I think he is fairly close to you.Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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06-02-2011 09:06 AM  9 years ago
krashtagain

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ohio

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My motto is , never give up !!If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up space !
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06-02-2011 09:19 AM  9 years ago
Blade_Helis

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New York

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Yes exactly never give up and when situations come like that, remain as calm as possible.
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06-02-2011 10:39 AM  9 years ago
wrongler

rrProfessor

Brewerton, New York

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Hi Chuck,

I have lost it a few times, Have had some good saves just by sticking with it, Have put a few into the ground! I must say that I have learned how to repair better than flying, but the bottom line is stick with it and it will come. I have a couple of practice birds that "are use to being repaired", I use them when I try new stunts. The pucker factor seems to be a little less, with an older bird.
If you lose it and have time to hit throttle hold it may save you some $$$. Im usually so nervous when Im flying that I barely remember to hold on to the TX. Good Luck, Bill
Bill Whittaker
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06-02-2011 12:26 PM  9 years ago
snjbird

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Kissimmee, Florida- USA

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Oh yea been there done that! it is a scary feeling when you loose it, but flying behind you makes it 10X worse!
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06-02-2011 05:19 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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Topeka, KS

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I can't quite remember where JPEE lives, but I think he is fairly close to you.
I sent JPEE an email with the link to this thread. If he's around I'm sure he'll drop in shortly.

To the OP, fly it until it's a debris field. There is where you'll save the most money and learn the most about recovery. If danger takes precedence then kill the motor but just because the motor isn't on doesn't mean you stop flying it.
Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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06-02-2011 05:58 PM  9 years ago
Heli-on

rrVeteran

Southern Cali, CA - USA

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While flying on the sim, try looking away from the screen for a second or two while doing a mash and stir on the sticks. Then practice looking back at the screen and recovering.

You have to be flying for a long time before nothing phases you. You have to rely on what your brain is telling you, not what you're eyes are seeing. Always keep a running 'clock' going in your head as to the models heading, attitude, and speed. The recovery you practice will be resetting this 'clock'. When I began, the 2 biggest reasons that led to me losing a bead on the heli were lighting (read position of the sun), or a tail blowout.

If you think you're going to crash into someone, don't try to be a hero. Put the thing in the ground and keep yourself and others safe. If you attend a funfly, make sure they bring this point up at the pilot's briefing. Really irks me to see pilots flying at these things that have no business flying around other people, but it will happen.
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06-02-2011 09:47 PM  8 years ago
JOLT

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Baltimore, MD

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Don't feel the need to stand still if you loose orientation. Turn to face the heli in a tail in, where ever it is. Try not to PANIC. Release the cyclic and move the collective to mid stick. Learning to do this helped me.
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06-02-2011 10:30 PM  8 years ago
CalmAir

rrApprentice

Camarillo, Ca.

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Thanks again Guy's,
Lot of great input. I especially like the debris field. I have done that. And like Wrongler suggests, I'm going to keep practicing with beater 450's.

I'm thinking if I can get proficient at all orientations with a 450 in the wind. I can probably fly most anything. That being said, I'm assuming it's easier to recover a 600 than a 450?. I know it is on the Phoenix.
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06-02-2011 10:50 PM  8 years ago
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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then practice orientation hovering on the sim.
+1

I fly with my right middle finger on the hold button. If anything happens that I don't want to happen I hit it. More often than not, it's premature and I end up autoing in for nothing.

It does serve three purposes. First it slows the head speed so that my brain can catch up to what the heli is doing as I'm attempting to level the disk. Second, if I can't save it, the heli will have far less damage to it than hitting the ground wide open. Third, especially if the heli is behind me, I won't hit anyone with powered blades thus minimizing injury.

Just remember to go collective neutral no matter what you are doing to save the heli.
High Voltage just works better
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06-03-2011 12:15 AM  8 years ago
JPEE

rrNovice

Porter Ranch Sunny SoCal

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Out ofControl
CalmAir,

JPEE here from Northridge,SFV, 43 miles from you.

I would like to add one other point. That is, I have had three occassions where I was flying sizes 450-500-600's where I lost control or my orientation and was not able to recover, or so I thought. The most recent incident was a week ago at our club field. The day was gray and overcast and for me not the best condtions, but I chosse to fly anyway. I let my 600 go out and as I made a bank to turn and come back I could not see her beyond a gray shadow and in just a moment as is the case with heli's she was out of control and going down! While I tried to save her, there was a point that I relented and said allowed, she is going down! Again I preface, I had given up and was watching her go down and accepted the outcome. As mentioned above I was at mid stick no pitch to minimize damage but had not yey hit the throttle-hold. But in a flash the heli righted itself and I was in full control again and brought her in for a safe landing.
When this first happened to me some three years ago I mentioned to the boys at HeliHobby where I trade a few blocks away from my house. The senior heli pilot there at the time smiled and explained it like this. While my conscience brain had given up and was expecting the "inevitable" a crash, my sub conscience had taken over with "finger memory" and fought to work the heli back. While this all might sound a bit crazy, if you ask around you will find other pilots that have experienced this phenomena.

Follow what the guys said above and take your time and you will do well.
T-REX 700e V2 Kontronik 120 and VBAR , T-Rex 500ESP FBL VBAR, 2, T-Rex 450 Pro
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06-03-2011 12:34 AM  8 years ago
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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When I sim,I still keep the heli in front of me from 10:00 to 2:00

Using all of the unlimited sky in a sim does nothing for you but build bad habits that lead to events like you described.

Me personally?
The heli will never get behind me without making every effort to stuff it into the ground in front of me.
There's no way of knowing what's behind you.
Assume a kindergarten class has crept up behind.
Always assume someone will be hurt if it gets behind you.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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06-03-2011 05:17 AM  8 years ago
Solmanbandit

rrElite Veteran

Tucson , AZ

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I was thinking the closet save I had a few months ago, the skids touched the ground as I saved it with no damage.Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2
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