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05-30-2011 07:51 PM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Hi Guys, glad you could join the circus pity you did not appear earlier
Modtron, quite correct 4 blades on a scout not 5, I was thinking of 500 when writting Scout
Modtron,you have explained how to get the correct CofG, reasonably well, also what it does if it is not the same, some thing I said a lot earlier
I tend to use a knife edge, with someone else to support the ballanced blade while I mark a pencil line at 90 degrees accross the blade, I then turn the blade through 45 degrees, again mark that line, where those lines cross is the CofG of that blade,for more accuracy you can turn the blade back 90 degrees, I then measure the distance from the leading edge of the blade, its this distance, that I want on all the blades in a set be it 2 or more
Tiltrotor,The photo's show how we tackled a set of 5 blades for the 500,after weighing the blades individually, we ballanced each blade against the heaviest,
After fitting to the head,we just weighted the blades until one blade could be stopped at any 1 of the 360 degrees
The variable speed drill was used to spin the blades to check the tracking, it may seem a bit "Heath Robinson", but it did the job, and was not expensive
For the smart Alecs who think this is over the top, remember, it,s the head and tail spinning that produces the most vibration, the smoother it is the better it flies and the least damage especially to bearings
Peter R

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05-30-2011 08:08 PM  8 years ago
darrens

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United Kingdom

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Spray some of your paint into the paint can top and let the thinners breath out, when the paint gets thick paint it on the ends of the blades to get to the correct ballance,
Hold on a minute, isn't that adding weight away from the C of G Peter??????

Swiftly contradicted by;
I have been saying from the beginning, that equal CofG is important
Followed by a personal insult

Swiftly followed by the posting of a picture of the only articulated model Heli head ever.......of course, one that Peter does not fly on any of his machines, but it was worth a punt hey

Next refuse to attempt a question you find too difficult to answer and remove yourself from the topic in an attempt to retreat to the high ground.

And there you have, the perfect recipe for alienating even more people and making oneself look a cock!!!!!!
He who dies with the most toys is the winner!
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05-30-2011 08:57 PM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Darren, When you get to calling people names, its a sure sign you have lost the argument
You now have gone to picking holes in post,s, instead of reading it as a whole
As You are at a complete loss to what we are trying to acheive
1, The blades are painted
2, Ballanced
3, Checked for CofG
Hope this is simple enough, do it by numbers
Darren, you have absolutly no idea of what I do on a day to day basis, or how much experimenting I do with RC helicopters
I accused you of playing the Matt Jenner game, I see he has concocted a new alias from Ireland,(one day old) trouble is he uses the same terminoligy as Matt, dummy and pram comes to mind
Peter R
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05-30-2011 09:26 PM  8 years ago
darrens

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Peter,

I did explain once before that you are systematically losing the friends you once had and let's be honest, the list was never a big one to start with. Unfortunately you are the common denominator yet refuse to see or accept it, but I can understand that when the reflection is less than palatable. I have on occasions previously attempted to defend you, considering that you are old and lonely which are contributory to your actions and attitude, but I now have to concede to being wrong. The funny yet sad thing is....you will probably view that admission as some sort of victory when really it is just yet a further loss on your behalf.
He who dies with the most toys is the winner!
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05-30-2011 10:17 PM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Darren, See you have been gossiping with Matt again
Friends who needs them, I still have enough Backbone (even though it is supported by a titanium cage) to stand on my own two feet,
I personally do not give two f***s what people think or if they like me or not,
You do not like me, thats your problem, I do not have any problem living with myself

The reason for the original post was about painting blades, some thing I suspect you have never done yourself, reading your EC135 posts,
the only thing you did on that build was to supply the money for other people to do the work,
Peter R
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05-30-2011 10:48 PM  8 years ago
darrens

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United Kingdom

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Friends who needs them
This I can't argue with, as anyone who wanted or needed friends would not act the way you do.
I personally do not give two f***s what people think or if they like me or not
Based on most peoples opinion of you that is a very fortunate twist of fate!
You do not like me
This is not really fair as I have given it my very best efforts and outlasted so many others

And as for your last comment, I see jelousy remains an ugly mistress and I have been moved from your "friends" camp over to the the "ex-friends" camp. Well, all I can say is that it's bloody crowded over here........you can't swing a cat, but it is at least occupied by a reasonable bunch of guys (the list is quite distinguished actually) who feed off respect, honesty and humility.......when you realise how under populated you camp is, you should try taking a vacation here......... although clearly you might complain about the food!!! D
He who dies with the most toys is the winner!
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05-30-2011 11:05 PM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Good night, I need some rest
Peter R
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05-30-2011 11:48 PM  8 years ago
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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After verifying the C of G and length wise balance, a guy at the club would check his cord wise balance by hanging the blades both at the same time, on a thin hard rod thru then head bolt holes. If they hang different he said they are out of cord wise cg and worthless.
Any comments from you guys ???
Paul
I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?
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05-30-2011 11:57 PM  8 years ago
darrens

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That makes sense but I would imagine they would have to be out by quite a bit for it to show.He who dies with the most toys is the winner!
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05-31-2011 09:53 AM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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GyroFreak,Paul,
The guy at your club is 100% correct
He is probably old, or been tutored by some one who was around in the early days of helicopter building
In the early days blades were made of a composite of woods, starting at a hardwood on the leadinng edge followed by differing grades of wood finishing with Balsa, they then were weighted by pieces of lead glued in , excess glue sanded off, they were then sealed, originally with dope,painted, later with varnish, later again, wrapped in a sheet of vinyl, all excess trimmed off
After this process you can understand why just 2 blades would differ in their flying characteristics
It now becomes clear why something had to be done to get the blades, equal
There was a publication called Ray's Complete Helicopter Manual,
by Ray Hostetler, (still available from Amazon)
I still have my 3rd edition 1991
Chapters 17 & 18 deal with blade ballancing and CofG
In these chapters it explains the ways and the WHY,s of getting the blades correct, and uses the hanging two blades on a rod, as an example

I used this pulication as my bible, what I learned from it has stood me in good stead for all my flying years,
In the age we fly in now, with ready to fly models, fancy electronics that let you fly straight out of the box with little knowledge,
Too many of the new generation of flyers, think that because they can fly, and do all the fancy tricks they know it all, they don't they have just learned to fly
Peter R
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05-31-2011 01:21 PM  8 years ago
darrens

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United Kingdom

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fancy electronics that let you fly straight out of the box with little knowledge,
Too many of the new generation of flyers, think that because they can fly, and do all the fancy tricks they know it all, they don't they have just learned to fly
And as in life, everything has a flip side and the flip side to this sweeping and inaccurate assumption would be;

A) those who have been around for years (yet still cant fly well) thinking they know everything about flying

OR

B) those who have been around for years and produced many average models assuming that volume production of such mediocrity makes you an expert

of course, both the above scenarios would be entirely inaccurate also.
He who dies with the most toys is the winner!
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05-31-2011 01:40 PM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Tut Tut
Darren, you really are dredging the depths
Nobody knows everything about anything

But a good depth of knowledge, gives the owner of that knowledge, a lot more to draw upon

Any thing new on blade painting?

Peter R
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05-31-2011 02:31 PM  8 years ago
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Thanks Peter. I can understand why old blades could be a balancing problem from your description. I suppose warpage also plagued the old woodies early on.
Paul
I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?
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05-31-2011 02:55 PM  8 years ago
darrens

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I suppose warpage also plagued the old woodies early on.
Don't mention a War Page......Peter will be starting his own blog
He who dies with the most toys is the winner!
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05-31-2011 04:24 PM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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warpage also plagued the old woodies
Paul, Strange but not true, the wooden blades, because of their construction, were in fact very stable, providing they were sealed
I found, that when the vinyl covering was used, if the end grain of the wood was not sealed, they had a tendancy to absorb damp up through the end grain, mix this with lying in a hot car, they did have a tendancy to bend (mild form of steaming to shape wood)
I bought one of the first Thunder Tiger Raptors in the country, I still have the spare wooden blades up in the loft, these were sealed in a plastic film, supplied with 1 black and 1 red ballancing tape, they are still as good as new, but now surplus to requirments
Peter R

ps, Water, Duck'd back
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05-31-2011 08:05 PM  8 years ago
MattJen

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UK

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Following on from what was said above I was always told to seal the bolt end of the wooden blade aswell, to stop oil seeping under the cover and into the wood and cause warping, so I used a thin smear of the epoxy, or CA.
My raptor 30V1 had woodies, as composites became more popular I was recommended to change to carbons and do the bearing upgrade that I am sure most V1 flyers remember having to buy! That machine was considered a cheat back then, when compared to others.
But TT bought alot a of new people into the hobby, just as ARTF models do today.

Matt
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05-31-2011 08:37 PM  8 years ago
James

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Del Mar California

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this is very informing information Matt, has given me a step by step instructions in how to do everything to get my blades correct .

So if im' correct there's 3 different steps you must do to get the blades true.

1) check the C.G. on each blade individually

2) check there weights are all the same

3) then attach to blades together having them tip back and fourth on a jig find the heaviest of them all and use it as the master attach all other blades to it finding the light side and adding foil label on the bottom at the CG point only to get them all the same level, am i correct or not ?

need to make sure the final part is right.

Jim
flying is the easy part paying for it whole different story
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05-31-2011 09:41 PM  8 years ago
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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to stop oil seeping under the cover and into the wood and cause warping,
Matt, your post raises a question
Where is all the oil comming from, especially enough to warp a blade
Peter R
ps, the photo just to remind you what a Raptor blade looked like

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05-31-2011 10:00 PM  8 years ago
MattJen

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UK

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The fuel

I flew with high castor content fuel, and as I started to loop and do minor aeros the blades would get covered.
So i was recommended to do as i posted.

Thanks for the photo, I still have my set as well, but unfortunatly am in the New Forest, so cannot post it.

Matt
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05-31-2011 10:38 PM  8 years ago
MattJen

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UK

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also

My blades did not come like that, mine had to have the roots glued on.

So i was told to use a 30min epoxy to give the strongest bond and I was told not to go over 1700rpm..

The guy who was at my club was an elderly plank flyer who went over to hellies in 80's, he had a schluter heli boy and a Kavan jetranger.

Hence he laughed at my raptor 30v1, with a HH 2000 gyro, and fully 3001 servos.

His gyro spun, sounding like clock work, mine at that time was the size of a matchbox, looked neat, compared to his.

anything to do with the raptor, i was (told not go by Rays manual which i also have) as some of his recommendations deserved the darwin award and were just plain dangerous.

so i used as my rule book so to speak Raptor technique, it still has a good following down to this day for most helicopters.

Matt
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