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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › what can cause the tail to blow out when doing punch outs ?
05-13-2011 10:02 PM  7 years agoPost 21
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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Richardmid1 So has the problem gone away then?
yep
now i have to do th samething to my 450 /50/and 60

thanks for all of your help and advice

tail view of the wag

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Insha Allah made in america

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05-14-2011 02:40 AM  7 years agoPost 22
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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this is how i fixed it.

Watch at YouTube

overview of my 500

Watch at YouTube

Insha Allah made in america

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05-14-2011 03:14 AM  7 years agoPost 23
swoop_g

rrApprentice

Lake Charles, LA USA

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You have a real nice setup man, I wasn't trying to say it wasn't. I can make all my heli's bog if I feed it too much collective on a punch out and that is what I thought you might be doing too. I'm glad you got it figured out though. Now I am having problems with my ds760! It won't do any corrections on my tail, even with the heli in my hand. I can control the blade pitch but not good enough to fly it. I mean absolutely no help from the gyro.

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05-14-2011 05:25 AM  7 years agoPost 24
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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swoop_g You have a real nice setup man, I wasn't trying to say it wasn't. I can make all my heli's bog if I feed it too much collective on a punch out and that is what I thought you might be doing too. I'm glad you got it figured out though. Now I am having problems with my ds760! It won't do any corrections on my tail, even with the heli in my hand. I can control the blade pitch but not good enough to fly it. I mean absolutely no help from the gyro.
thanks brother i bet you would have a nice time bogging the vertigo motor down id love to watch keep in mind i dont know much .

do you have away to check the rudder servo ?
and wow the gyro just stop working in flight ?
did you try resetting the servo type ?

Insha Allah made in america

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05-14-2011 05:33 AM  7 years agoPost 25
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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wc_wickedclown, approximately how much right-thrust do you have set on the tail blades while the servo is centered at 90 degrees? Most gyros work best with 3 degrees or more. When I say right-thrust I mean the tail blades biting air to pirouette the heli clockwise. On a Trex500 all you have to do is shorten the tail control rod to add more right-thrust, but then readjust your end points on the gyro. Post your results!

_Sam B_

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05-14-2011 08:08 AM  7 years agoPost 26
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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Sam2b wc_wickedclown, approximately how much right-thrust do you have set on the tail blades while the servo is centered at 90 degrees? Most gyros work best with 3 degrees or more. When I say right-thrust I mean the tail blades biting air to pirouette the heli clockwise. On a Trex500 all you have to do is shorten the tail control rod to add more right-thrust, but then readjust your end points on the gyro. Post your results!
cant i do that by just sliding the rudder servo down the boom ?

and i just evened the tail blades like i did in the video.

and ill never add any degrees of pitch to my tail adding pitch to my tail the way you explained it almost gave me a heart attack lol.

if i dont hover the heli in rate mode and adjust the tail then ill just have to stick to my way its worked perfect for 2 yrs.

only draw back to m method is that if the heli goes into rate mode the heli will start to pyro.

lucky for me my gyro is always on in hh mode.

but 3 degrees makes more since then 8 degrees i may give that a try one day thank you.

Insha Allah made in america

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05-14-2011 10:04 PM  7 years agoPost 27
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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You will burn servos out if not properly set up . If you offset blade pitch to hold you always have load on servo and servo will over work causing failure . I hover in rate mode and track tail on all gyros and can't tell you the last time I had servo fail .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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05-14-2011 10:18 PM  7 years agoPost 28
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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Jeff polisena You will burn servos out if not properly set up . If you offset blade pitch to hold you always have load on servo and servo will over work causing failure . I hover in rate mode and track tail on all gyros and can't tell you the last time I had servo fail .
yep ive never burned a servo either

and well said thank you i agree

Insha Allah made in america

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05-14-2011 10:26 PM  7 years agoPost 29
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Before there was hard 3d and 0 deg at half stick you needed 8 deg to properly set up and air frames required in the build but now most of if not all have been designed to be setup 90 deg like cyclic servos .Electronics are better and more user friendly now taking the complications out of setups.

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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05-15-2011 11:36 PM  7 years agoPost 30
CT.Chopper

rrVeteran

Meriden, CT

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I had an issue on the tail of my Radikal 30

It comes stock with 95mm plastic tail blades,
and it would blowout on hard collective inputs.

I put on 105mm rotortech carbon tails and i had to
drop the gain alot.

needless to say it holds perfect now.

Rob Landry.

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05-16-2011 06:28 AM  7 years agoPost 31
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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Jeff polisena Before there was hard 3d and 0 deg at half stick you needed 8 deg to properly set up and air frames required in the build but now most of if not all have been designed to be setup 90 deg like cyclic servos .Electronics are better and more user friendly now taking the complications out of setups.
i hope someone updates my buddy bob before someone else uses one of his old setup videos on a new heli and end up hurt.

you make a lot of since jeff.
thank you

Insha Allah made in america

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05-17-2011 02:14 PM  7 years agoPost 32
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Jeff your last 2 posts contradict each other.

3 degrees wouldn't be enough but then again it depends on the headspeed, you should set it so it doesn't yaw in rate mode in your normal flight mode/headspeed, so if you fly mostly in idle up then you would need to set it in idle up.

I used to offset the servo arm about 30 degrees (forwards on a boom mounted servo) and set around 5-8 degrees of tail pitch, this equalizes the stops from left and right piroettes (on some older gyros) and a higher gain could be achieved as a result. Basically the servo has further to travel when stopping from a left piroette than a right piroette thus softening the stop from the left and sharpening the stop from the right, usually stops from the left are sharper and sometimes too sharp and result in a bounce back or wag.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-17-2011 02:51 PM  7 years agoPost 33
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Hey Clowny, I found that a funner way to do punch outs is to piroette left while doing them. The tail is doing a controlled blow out and they look alot cooler than regular ole tail in punch outs...

High Voltage just works better

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05-17-2011 04:15 PM  7 years agoPost 34
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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I had an issue on the tail of my Radikal 30

It comes stock with 95mm plastic tail blades,
and it would blowout on hard collective inputs.

I put on 105mm rotortech carbon tails and i had to
drop the gain alot.

needless to say it holds perfect now.
Tail blades with more area . . . . the best answer yet.

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05-17-2011 06:33 PM  7 years agoPost 35
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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Rogman88 Hey Clowny, I found that a funner way to do punch outs is to piroette left while doing them. The tail is doing a controlled blow out and they look alot cooler than regular ole tail in punch outs...
one day it like to try that .

but while its undewr my control up and down up and down.

just a couple times

my gyros are 2 gp750's and spartan quark and spartan gp750

they work pretty good

Insha Allah made in america

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05-18-2011 10:05 AM  7 years agoPost 36
Spitfire1

rrElite Veteran

Perth Australia

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With my 401 I could to vertical tail slides from high up so the heli was heading for the ground backward at full speed then pull out inverted useing full negative pitch with no tail blow out, but as soon as I tried to make even the slightest turn whilst flying inverted backward, instant unwanted pyro flip.

Thats about the point I gave up flying helis, so I never figured out why it was always happening.

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05-18-2011 10:15 AM  7 years agoPost 37
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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You gave up flying helis because of it?

The 401 will blow out if using any rudder in fast backward flight, it is not as capable as todays gyros. However there are many ways the 401's performance can be improved.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-18-2011 01:12 PM  7 years agoPost 38
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Yes you can outfly a 401 but that doesent make it a bad gyro . It's a good intro gyro but also it will let you know when it's time to upgrade .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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05-18-2011 02:31 PM  7 years agoPost 39
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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as I read through this there seems to be a lot of confusing info.

my own personal experience with MANY gyros including a G-90,401,520,hitec5000/logitec,780,and spartan is most gyros get the best performance when set up in RATE mode first,there are exceptions but that has been MY experience.

adjusting the tail control rod and moving the servo on the boom does the exact same thing,the tail rod just gives you finer control.

I dont see how either way puts more or less stress on the servo.Even if you set it up in rate,the servo still has to hold the tail at center, forces on the blades are trying to return them to 0 pitch and this puts a load on the servo the same as if it is holding at any other point.

Besides how much stationary hovering do you actually do once you move on to FF.its not like you are leaving the rudder untouched for entire batteries.

I find it funny that after all this time gyro/tail set up seems to always be a topic even though modern gyros perform awesome and to ME atleast are cake to set up.

If the directions say set it up in Rate,I set it up in Rate,adjust my endpoints,set the gain and go fly.maybe I am lucky but I rarely have issues.if there is an issue its usually a mechanical thing as something has changed or moved(slop from wear ect)or there is a vib that needs attention

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

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05-18-2011 02:56 PM  7 years agoPost 40
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Besides how much stationary hovering do you actually do once you move on to FF.
After my opening move...I don't hover again till I land. I guess folks feel better thinking that the mechanical set up is more efficient set up in rate mode. I do this on my 450 with gy401. My Logo with vbar, I just set it up approximately and never looked back, no rate mode, just fly the crap out of it and the 9256 keeps her rock solid.

High Voltage just works better

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › what can cause the tail to blow out when doing punch outs ?
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