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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › what can cause the tail to blow out when doing punch outs ?
05-13-2011 03:35 AM  7 years agoPost 1
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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i had this happen with my 401 and spartan gyro .

im thinking it could be lose belt or front drive gear

Insha Allah made in america

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05-13-2011 03:44 AM  7 years agoPost 2
swoop_g

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Lake Charles, LA USA

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Probably the motor is bogging and can't spin the tail rotor fast enough to move enough air to hold your tail. This is where collective management skills will help you out. You can't just peg the stick and expect it to go full speed all of a sudden but it would be nice. I'm sure some setups can get close but not mine. That is the ONLY thing that affects my Spartan gyro.

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05-13-2011 03:47 AM  7 years agoPost 3
Funknrock

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San Marcos, CA

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i've see that with the 401, GP750 and 780. (sometimes with a Mini-G)
part of it is the mechanical set up. i've been told to set in rate and adjust the tail pitch mechanically till it hovers without any rudder input. do not adjust with rudder sub trim. make sure the servo is 90deg to the boom and move the mount till it hovers in rate. this helped with my protos and a GP780.

i'm running FBL with a BeastX on 4 of my helis now and do not have that prob anymore. i'm 0 pitch on the tail at start.

My crashes are cooler than your flying! ;^)

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05-13-2011 04:30 AM  7 years agoPost 4
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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Sounds like your gain could be dialed up a bit more, but honestly, although the 401 is a great unit, it does have it's limits. It's not an all out 3D gyro. Without knowing how hard you are pushing your 401 before it blows out, it's hard to say what's causing it. Does it blow out in one direction more than another? Does it feel loose in flight. Was wind a factor? Are you doing alot of fast tail first flight? Have you tried increasing your headspeed? What do your pitch and throttle curves look like?

In your case I really don't think it's a fault of your machine as much as maybe you are pushing that poor little 401 beyond what it's capable of handling. Tame back your 3D, buy a more 3D specific gyro, or adjust your settings to better accomodate your 401 (less aggresive). Good luck and have fun mister

Mellisa

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05-13-2011 05:00 AM  7 years agoPost 5
Ducati996

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Reno, Nevada

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GY701 Gyro and Governor
The new GY701 has an integrated mix to compensate for that. When you punch hard the gyro will detect the deflection and adjust the governor accordingly. I just got one installed to test it. If you are good mixing things on your radio you could have the compensation done that way.

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05-13-2011 05:00 AM  7 years agoPost 6
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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[quote]i had this happen with my 401 and spartan gyro .

im thinking it could be lose belt or front drive gear[quote]

I would guess it isnt both gyros.
What heli ,motor, gear ratio, blades,,Tail servo[ maybe bad] collective pitch ,headspeed,cyclic pitch you running? What are your thottle curves? Have you checked the belt?

A 401 is a good gyro even still after all these years and many thousands of guys have run it without the problems you say your having,,unless there is something wrong either in the gyro or heli, tail servo or other electronics or mechanical settings.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-13-2011 05:14 AM  7 years agoPost 7
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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turboomni [quote]i had this happen with my 401 and spartan gyro .

im thinking it could be lose belt or front drive gear[quote]

I would guess it isnt both gyros.
What heli ,motor, gear ratio, blades,,Tail servo[ maybe bad] collective pitch ,headspeed,cyclic pitch you running? What are your thottle curves? Have you checked the belt?

A 401 is a good gyro even still after all these years and many thousands of guys have run it without the problems you say your having,,unless there is something wrong either in the gyro or heli, tail servo or other electronics or settings.
belt seems tight at the tail end but little mushy inside the frame near the front gear.

thr curve =gov mode 2300 rpm
pitch -48 49 65 75 100 12 degress max .
gp760 gyro.

can i over tighten the belt ?

Insha Allah made in america

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05-13-2011 05:22 AM  7 years agoPost 8
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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Yes,if the belt is too tight,the tail will kick out if you punch it.I can do full +/- pitch pump's with any of the gyro's I had (JR 770 3D,Align GP750,Align GP780,GY401,GY240,Spartan DS780,Spartan Quark) and the tail doesn't move.Only one that blew out alot on me was the GY401 but I was pushing it too hard during backward's stuff..

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05-13-2011 05:36 AM  7 years agoPost 9
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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BladeStrikes Yes,if the belt is too tight,the tail will kick out if you punch it.I can do full +/- pitch pump's with any of the gyro's I had (JR 770 3D,Align GP750,Align GP780,GY401,GY240,Spartan DS780,Spartan Quark) and the tail doesn't move.Only one that blew out alot on me was the GY401 but I was pushing it too hard during backward's stuff..
do i check it inside the frame or tail?

i thought if the belt were lose it could slip and cause kick outs.

thanks for the info

Insha Allah made in america

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05-13-2011 05:39 AM  7 years agoPost 10
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Blade is correct ,belt tension could cause it,,and I have heard the 401 can blow out in extreme backwards flight but I dont think this is your problem. What heli is this>???

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-13-2011 05:51 AM  7 years agoPost 11
swoop_g

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Lake Charles, LA USA

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WC, I can't believe you don't have a video of your tail blowing out during punch outs. You have a ton of videos. Video your tail blowing out and then we will have a better idea of what is happening. I still think you are bogging.

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05-13-2011 06:41 AM  7 years agoPost 12
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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swoop_g WC, I can't believe you don't have a video of your tail blowing out during punch outs. You have a ton of videos. Video your tail blowing out and then we will have a better idea of what is happening. I still think you are bogging.
my setup really has to much power to bogg
vertigo 1760 kv motor 6s 30c lipo 15t pinion cc ice 100 esc in gov mode.

as we were recording the memory card to a crap on me lost 2 good vids.

belt does seem kind of tight

Watch at YouTube

this is the last time i flew it without punching.

Watch at YouTube

Insha Allah made in america

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05-13-2011 02:08 PM  7 years agoPost 13
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Is the main gear the same size as on the Trex 500? Seems way over geared for that kv of motor especially as your only governing to 2300. Get a 12T pinion, run 100% flat instead of governor and your problem will have gone away. Guarantee it.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-13-2011 02:34 PM  7 years agoPost 14
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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Turn the gain up

RIP ROMAN

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05-13-2011 02:49 PM  7 years agoPost 15
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Tame back your 3D
Yeah WC you're pushing your machine too hard! You need to back off some!

High Voltage just works better

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05-13-2011 04:01 PM  7 years agoPost 16
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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Rogman88
Tame back your 3D
Yeah WC you're pushing your machine too hard! You need to back off some!
Tame back your 3D
? lol.

Insha Allah made in america

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05-13-2011 04:04 PM  7 years agoPost 17
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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FBoss Turn the gain up
will try thanks boss
Richardmid1 Is the main gear the same size as on the Trex 500? Seems way over geared for that kv of motor especially as your only governing to 2300. Get a 12T pinion, run 100% flat instead of governor and your problem will have gone away. Guarantee it.
thanks rich ill keep that in mind for now im just gonna set the tail up in rate mode first.

Insha Allah made in america

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05-13-2011 08:46 PM  7 years agoPost 18
swoop_g

rrApprentice

Lake Charles, LA USA

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my setup really has to much power to bogg
No such thing. Every setup will have a certail amount of "lag" in the system when full throttle/collective is given. The amount of strain you introduce with the controls slows down every motor and we see this in the headspeed. Some are better than others and some have very little change in RPM when under full load of the machine. I am not familiar with your setup so I can't say anything for sure but a video would be very helpful.
Oh and your belt seems fine, maybe a hair tight but not really.

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05-13-2011 09:10 PM  7 years agoPost 19
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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swoop_g Oh and your belt seems fine, maybe a hair tight but not really.
THANKS Swoop in the old days i would setup my tail in rate mode
i would slide the rudder servo until the tail blades where even

then switch into HH and go fly.

so i watched a HF video and was told to add 8 degrees of pitch in rate mode to the tail

i guess thats what was causing the blow outs.

i set the tail up the good old fashion way by centering the tail in rate mode she is tight as a arrow now .

adjusted the gyro until the wag stopped took a while but i got her ready to do some more inverts .

i had set my 450 up the same way i tried to do a flip and the tail blow out i lost control and got my first inverted hover save.
so i know what inverted hover feels like it was more stable then my sim.

Insha Allah made in america

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05-13-2011 09:29 PM  7 years agoPost 20
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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So has the problem gone away then?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › what can cause the tail to blow out when doing punch outs ?
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