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05-13-2011 03:37 AM  7 years agoPost 21
lottomunch

rrNovice

san diego, ca

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How many of you that bag on the high priced packs have actually ever flown them?

I've flown TP 45's and Turnigy packs on my Trex 450 and my 500. The TP packs flew so much stronger it was ridiculous. They went through the CV phase of the charge so much faster (with balancing turned off) and they were never out of balance.

I'm not saying they are worth the money. That's is a personal issue. But I can say without a doubt that they are a WAY WAY WAY better battery.

Anybody that is arguing that point must not have ever tried both or they are just cruising a plane around.

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05-13-2011 01:07 PM  7 years agoPost 22
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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I read your post. Almost 100 flights doesn't impress me. I don't recall your post showing any comparative data of one your HK packs versus a premium TP or Hyperion pack at say 50, 100, 150, and perhaps 200 cycles at various discharge rates.

Looks like your response also forgot to include your list of the "few" LiPo factories you're aware of that exist. Perhaps you can even tell us which brands are made in which factories.
Prove those TP and Hyperion packs get that life span. I call BS on usable 200+ cycles. They will be very weak flights past around 100-150 cycles in my experience. You see AceDude, I've tried TP packs. There's a reason many people call them Thunder Puffers! Never tried Hyperion, but I wouldn't consider them a premium brand either, just overpriced.

Actually, the intellectually curious would do their own search to find where the LiPo factories are located. As to which particular factory makes the HK packs, who cares, they're all the same! The manufacturer for a lot/batch is likely selected through the RFP bidding process and changes depending on who wins that particular bid.

Your argument that one LiPo is better than the other brand reminds me of the old Eveready versus Rayovac ads. Just marketing hype!

But Ace Dude, if you want to go on believing that one is better simply because you paid more money, be my guest. You know what they say about a fool and his money.

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05-13-2011 01:18 PM  7 years agoPost 23
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Anybody that is arguing that point must not have ever tried both or they are just cruising a plane around.
That's usually always the case and when it comes down to it, very few have the knowledge, skills, and equipment to carry out the proper tests.

  

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05-14-2011 04:10 AM  7 years agoPost 24
lottomunch

rrNovice

san diego, ca

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Wish I could figure out the quotes....I'm too stupid....

"Prove those TP and Hyperion packs get that life span. I call BS on usuable 200+ cycles."

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ight=300+cycles

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05-14-2011 06:25 AM  7 years agoPost 25
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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Pass the salt. You may not know this, but that reviewer has posted a number of cycle life and performance results that can rarely be duplicated by other users purchasing random retail samples of the same batteries. I suspect no intent to mislead on the part of the reviewer. Perhaps his usage patterns are far different than the average heli pilot, or perhaps his test samples are not an acurate representation of what a regular consumer can aquire through retail channels.

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05-14-2011 07:12 AM  7 years agoPost 26
lottomunch

rrNovice

san diego, ca

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It's my understanding that that reviewer has equipment that most of us won't spring for. I'm just a pee-on in these discussions but he does seem to be respected by most other people that really seem to know what they are talking about.

I'm not going to proclaim to be a know it all in this discussion. I'm probably pretty average in my rc experience. I've been flying with lipo's since 2003 but due to my budget I've spent most of my time until recently with smaller packs (3s and such). I can tell you that other than the TP V1 and V2 Extreme packs (which sucked bad) my experience with Thunderpower packs has been very very good. If I had the money I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

I wish I had the same good luck as others have with Turnigy packs. I purchased eight 6s packs and had medium to bad experiences on all of them. All of them have lost substantial power after less than 30 flights. One of them arrived with one cell WAY low. One of them puffed in 20 flights.

More power to you Turnigy lovers. I'm jealous because my wallet really wanted them to work for me. My experience is that I just wasted around $400 bucks. O well. Good lesson I guess.

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05-14-2011 02:30 PM  7 years agoPost 27
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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The testing done by everydayflyer (EDF) cannot be extrapolated to real world cycle life. First off he used a beta pack provided by TP. These will have hand selected cells of the best quality (read, low IR) that match. The testing was mostly, if not all, bench testing where the charge/discharge was back to back cycles with no shelf time in between.

Many of us will charge packs the day or night before we plan to fly, then our plans or the weather changes and we have to cancel flying for a few days. Some of us will let the fully charged batteries sit for a few days in hopes of being able to slip out to the field for a quick flight or ten. I've had fully charged batteries sit over a week because of this. It's a PITA to discharge large packs.

In short, the real life of your typical LiPo is much different than the conditions used by EDF. As Gregor99 mentioned, the real users of the pack will get much shorter life than EDF's testing might indicate. BTW, his tests showed a drop in capacity to only 92% after 106 cycles. My real world experience in a RC heli suggests the capacity and power starts to drop considerably at this point, FWIW.

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05-15-2011 12:03 AM  7 years agoPost 28
lottomunch

rrNovice

san diego, ca

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I'm not at all saying that every part of his reports are directly true to my real life experiences.

What I am saying is that his testing leads us to see that a pack is STRONG or whatever you want to call it. It also highlights some of the weaker packs.

What I see is a correlation between his testing and my real world performance. There are soooo many variables in the world of batteries (luck, continuous discharge rate, burst rate, storage, temp, charge rate, what voltage you stop charging (4.1, 4.15, 4.2), % discharged, number of times overdischarged, etc.) that nobody can ever say with certainty that they are seeing the exact same results.

As an overall general observation though I can say that there is a correlation between his numbers and the packs I fly and those of my 6-8 buddies flying larger electric heli's.

I will shut up now. I'm certainly not posting any of this to try and change minds that are made up. I'm just trying to inform others that my experience and those at my flying site agree that you get what you pay for.

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05-16-2011 01:32 AM  7 years agoPost 29
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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But Ace Dude, if you want to go on believing that one is better simply because you paid more money, be my guest. You know what they say about a fool and his money.
Well, if you've spent any length of time on RR, then you're well aware that the intellectually inclined say "buy cheap, buy twice". Of course, there will always be those who are penny-wise and pound foolish.

Of course, any reputable vendor who provides a quality product should be willing to stand behind it. TP has posted their warrant here:

https://rc.runryder.com/t634276p1/?p=5230601#RR

What's the warranty on the Flightmax/Turnigy packs?

  

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05-16-2011 01:51 AM  7 years agoPost 30
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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What's the warranty on the Flightmax/Turnigy packs?
If I was charging 3-5 times the price for the same thing I'd give a warranty too. You have to make people think they are getting something for the extra money.

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05-16-2011 02:24 AM  7 years agoPost 31
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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If I was charging 3-5 times the price for the same thing I'd give a warranty too. You have to make people think they are getting something for the extra money.
If you read and understood my post you'd understand I wasn't asking you what you'd do. What I asked is what is the warranty on the Turnigy/Flighmax packs. Now, are you going to man up and answer the question or just continue blowing hot air?

Now, since you brought it up, perhaps you can show us any TP or Hyperion 3500mAh or larger premium pack that's priced five times more than a comparable Turnigy/Flightmax pack.

  

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05-16-2011 03:07 AM  7 years agoPost 32
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Actually, I read right through your lame attempt to make Turnigy/FlightMax look inferior because they have no warranty per se. We all know you weren't really asking for or interested in their warranty!
Of course, any reputable vendor who provides a quality product should be willing to stand behind it. TP has posted their warrant here:
Now, since you brought it up, perhaps you can show us any TP or Hyperion 3500mAh or larger premium pack that's priced five times more than a comparable Turnigy/Flightmax pack.
Where did you or I mention Hyperion in our previous to last posts? Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension.

As I said before, a fool and his money...

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05-16-2011 03:10 AM  7 years agoPost 33
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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What's the warranty on the Flightmax/Turnigy packs?
So glad you asked. I always get a bit of chuckle reading this.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ipo_policy.html

1) You can only make a claim for 'Under voltage' the same day the parcel arrives and prior to the lipoly pack being charged or cycled. 'Under Voltage' means that 1 or more of the cells in you pack has a voltage lower than 3v per cell. After the battery has been cycled or used, no claim for 'under voltage' can be made.

7) Packs which have a cell voltage difference of less than .245v per cell cannot be replaced. Please balance your packs if your packs appears to be unbalanced.

8) Should you be too concerned about sending the parcel back to us due to safety reasons. We will not warrant the pack. Purchasing any battery from HobbyKing.com, constitutes an agreement to this warranty policy.
Each battery brand has it's own warranty time limit. Our standard Lipoly warranty limit is 30 days, unless otherwise stated in the product listing.

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05-16-2011 03:18 AM  7 years agoPost 34
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Actually, I read right through your lame attempt to make Turnigy/FlightMax look inferior because they have no warranty per se. We all know you weren't really asking for or interested in their warranty!
Just as I expected, more hot air, and a mind reader to boot.

  

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05-16-2011 03:33 AM  7 years agoPost 35
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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So glad you asked. I always get a bit of chuckle reading this.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ipo_policy.html
Thanks, Gregor99 for taking the time to post the warranty as well as a link to the official warranty on the vendor's website.

I got quite a chuckle out if it was well.

Seems the only thing worse than their warranty is their customer service.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1362649

  

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05-16-2011 04:04 AM  7 years agoPost 36
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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What I am saying is that his testing leads us to see that a pack is STRONG or whatever you want to call it. It also highlights some of the weaker packs.
EDF is very up front about the sources of each pack he tests. Many of best results only come from a pack which has been privately provided by the pack vendor. However the worst results are when I buys a pack retail. Few seem to focus on this point and only look at the final numbers.

My Hyperion results are not near as good as his, and my Nanotech results are better. While I do believe the TP packs are better than most packs, price, performance and warranty are not the only factors I consider.

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05-17-2011 06:56 PM  7 years agoPost 37
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Now, are you going to man up and answer the question or just continue blowing hot air?
This reminds me of the nitro vs electric thread...subscribed!!!

My buddy has flown hard outrage, flightpower, 3S Thunderpower (small one on a plank) and turnigy. The turnigy's outlasted the others and he now buys them due to cost. If a cheap battery craps on you, it's expected. If an expensive battery decides to take a dump on you, it's expensive and sucks.

I've been blessed to have good luck with Turnigy. Yes, I've sent some back and had some drop cells on me, but at less than half the cost of hyperions and TP, the cost per flight on average is good. My balance chargers are pre-done for Turnigy too so I'd have to get adapters if I switched as well.

High Voltage just works better

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05-20-2011 10:18 PM  7 years agoPost 38
write2dgray

rrApprentice

Seattle, WA

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IR is the single best indicator of pack performance (voltage under load). Period. It is real and can be used to calculate power in flight and energy dissipated internally as heat, where C ratings are usually bogus marketing hype at best.

Capacity is also critical, easily measured, and has a direct relation with IR for a given chemistry, electrolyte composition, cathode, and anode.

Finally, cycle life is important for many of us here, and it has little relation to either of the traits above. It is more dependent on point defects in manufacturing, component construction, and impurities. This can not be tested short of running a full cycle life test (time!) and using multiple samples. One pack may be lucky and not represent the typical, or it may be unlucky with a larger latent defect that manifests at cycle 20 to a small internal short and a puffed cell.

- David

More wagging, less barking

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06-22-2011 03:43 AM  7 years agoPost 39
yannick

rrVeteran

South Korea

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I am flying a Fusion 50 on 12S 3000mah trunigy 45C. I do not really respect the basic rules for these batteries and all I can say is that the power I get is consistent after a lot of cycles. I charge them at 4C without letting them cool down between flights... I do not se why I would spend more...

I have 6 batteries, somes are about 80 cycles, Some are new. Some show 4 mOhm after the charge, some showed up to 20 and when I fly them I do not see any noticeable difference...

So for the price, that is good enough for me. If high brand give me 10% more efficiency at double the price, that is not for me.

The fact that I do not really care about these batteries allows me to fly much harder than with my other Heli (Rave) using more expensive brand (voltz) because if I damage one pack, is cheap to replace.

I actually bought some turnigjy for the Rave and see how it goes with the same philosophy...

Is it me or this time the ground was higher than last time??

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