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Other › Which quad heli???
08-02-2011 06:10 PM  6 years agoPost 21
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Here is my Min Air x-404
.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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08-02-2011 09:25 PM  6 years agoPost 22
integy2

rrVeteran

California USA

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ALWARE 500
Base on Gaui 300XS, but use 10" props, really stable.

(Good flight end up with ...... big smile :D)

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08-02-2011 10:50 PM  6 years agoPost 23
rtdillon

rrApprentice

Huntsville, AL

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Joel
I am probably going about this backwards. Basically I looked at the largest electric motor that was not scary expensive, and it requires a 160 amp ESC. It runs on 12s 5000 mah packs. Each motor puts out up to 6500 watts constant and can burst to 8400 watts. That is 26 Kw of power.

243 oz total battery weight.
209 oz total motor weight.
80 oz total chassis weight (estimated).
16 oz total electronics weight (estimated).
34.25 lbs estimated weight without payload.
25.00 lbs payload goal.

Which works out to about 270 watts per pound.

I have not found recommended power per lb information yet. Any input?

No,No..The other left!

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08-02-2011 11:13 PM  6 years agoPost 24
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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For those who want to build there own on a 440 mm chassie (motor shaft to motor shaft).
RC Aerodyne motor 730 KV Part # HD2830-16....$22.95 ea. need 4
Hobby King 20 Amp ESC HK-SS20A-HW .........$7.80 ea need 4
hobby King Programing Card HKz-Prog..........$3.57 Ea need 1
MuliwiiCopter V5.5 Blackboard controller $99.00(??) need 1
Props APC 10X3.8 SF (standard) need 2
props APC 10X3.8 SFP (pusher) need 2
.
The controller board seems to be out of stock in several places. Do a search on BlackBoard V5.5 So not sure iof the price.
.
Use laughinstill frame or whatever you can find or build.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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08-02-2011 11:22 PM  6 years agoPost 25
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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rtdillon
Giant Quad.....That size is going to be scary. I would love to see this and hear the sound it makes.
Why don't you start your own thread as you progress with details like particular motors, are pusher props available in the prop size you want,controller board (recommend BlackBoard V5.5), and ESC model .
I would be very interested in following and maybe building the same.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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08-03-2011 04:30 AM  6 years agoPost 26
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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@RTDillon,

There are a number of ways to design such a beast. It's an iterative process, and it depends on your constraints.

For example, you could choose to constrain your motor selection to a given motor, which will then dictate the optimal cell count for the optimal RPM with the optimal propellor for the optimal thrust. Once you determine the thrust with that setup, you can determine the all up weight of the system (assuming an airframe weight and electronics weight as you have done), and see how much thrust remains for lifting your payload. I think you'd want to design the system so that it had a 30-50% margin available for lift beyond the weight of the airframe and the payload.

Let's say the aircraft really does weigh 60lbs. If we say it has a lift target of 200 watts/lb, that means it's going to consume 60x200 = 12,000 watts. At 12S, that's 270A total. The load is spread to 4 motors, and 4 ESCs, which is only 67.5A per motor/ESC. 12,000 watts spread over 4 motors is 3000 watts per motor.

If we agree that 200 watts/lb is as much as you need, then you can actually use smaller motors, and smaller batteries, and smaller ESC's to keep the weight of the system down. This will reduce the power consumption of the system. So you can repeat the exercise by figuring out the weight of the system with smaller motors.

By your calculations, you have 15lbs of battery. If we assume ~700g for the 6S 5000 battery, you seem to looking at carrying about 10 batteries, so a 12S 5P setup.

The 12S 5P 25,000 mAH setup can provide 20,000 useful mAH capacity. If you consume 12,000 watts, this battery system can provide power for
20,000mAH / (270A * 1000mAH/AH) * 60min/H for 4.44 minutes.

If you assume that it's really 270 watts/lb, then you're talking about consuming 16,200 watts, 365A, and 3.28 minutes flight time.

It is true that you'd need to find pusher propellors to match. So make sure you can get them (or make them if you must) before you get too deep into it.

I had thought about doing this sort of large multirotorcraft a different way though. I think that using 2 bladed flybarless rotor heads would be excellent for this purpose.

I fly some relatively large helis, like my 40lb Air Crane, which has a 6 bladed head, 2000mm disc. It uses a NEU2230 2Y motor, which is capable of 10,000 watts. But, I actually only consume 1950 watts flying around. In general, nearly all of my scale helis consume ~50 watts per pound. My sense is that you could use rotor heads, and budget 100 watts per pound, and have a craft that works beautifully.

There is more mechanical complexity if you choose the rotor head route. You need servos to change the collective pitch of the blades. If you make the servos all move the same direction, then you don't need any special electronics to handle the collective pitch, because no mixing would be required. You'd simply have all servos for a given head connected via a Y harness, and "throttle" would control blade pitch. And real throttle (RPM) would be governed by the ESC and set constant.

At any rate .. I think it's quite doable. And perhaps, you can make the airframe / motors smaller than you think, which will use less power and require fewer and lighter batteries. It all helps.

Joel

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08-03-2011 06:08 AM  6 years agoPost 27
rtdillon

rrApprentice

Huntsville, AL

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Response
Gyrofreak,

Thank you, you are right. My apologies everyone for hijacking this thread. I will start a new one.

Joel,

Thank you for your response. With your permission I am going to copy our conversations so far to a new thread but only after you give permission.

No,No..The other left!

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08-03-2011 03:36 PM  6 years agoPost 28
Joel Rosenzweig

rrVeteran

Marlborough, MA - USA

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Of course! Point me to the new thread so I can follow it.

Joel

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08-03-2011 04:39 PM  6 years agoPost 29
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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You have my permission also. Paul

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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08-03-2011 04:39 PM  6 years agoPost 30
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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His new thread is:
https://rc.runryder.com/t657465p1/?p=5417566#RR

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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09-01-2011 02:57 PM  6 years agoPost 31
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Yep and the project died quickly. $4000+ to play at that scale.

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10-18-2011 02:48 AM  6 years agoPost 32
PaulGT3

rrApprentice

Mammoth Lakes Ca

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I am building my fifth multirotor the multiwiicopter hexicopter Scarab.
But my favorite so far is the Fyetech Y6 its easy to build in an hour,
its rock steady AND it has lights built in inclufing the battery level warning lights on the bottom telling you to come home.
The motors and ESCs are included so no guessing on your part, Then if you have your Stabilization system you are ready.

ANOTHER big advantage is its 3 fuselage decks and usually the 3rd deck is open for cameras and any associated equipment. Lots of room.
It is a tad on the small size but with the lights built in that saves room and the extra deck that adds room, and its easy to build.

I think its $250 with everything. I have Two. I will let you guys know
as soon as I get the scarab built. It looks bigger than the Y6 by about 1/3 but no lights.

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10-18-2011 02:55 AM  6 years agoPost 33
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Here is my VC 550 (under construction) next to my MA X404.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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