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05-07-2011 08:07 PM  8 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
jackheli

rrProfessor

Vancouver - Canada

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FBL vs FB
I think I am going FBL. What made me decide is that a couple of weeks ago a link broke on my FB head and the heli was smashed. Today a buddy lost a link on his FBL and the system kept the heli flyable, even with one blade hanging loose.

That says it all for me.
It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.
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05-07-2011 08:30 PM  8 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Depends on the link with a FB head.
I have lost one to the grip and landed OK with a fluttering blade.

Lose one lower and it will likely crash.

Since there are only two on a FBL head,you can lose either and land OK.

It will shudder and flutter but it won't be hard to handle.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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05-07-2011 09:30 PM  8 years ago
Supercoolheli

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Dallas, TX

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I fly a flybarless helicopter, and last week I lost a control rod link in flight and was able to land it. Difficult, but possible, and caused very minimal damage.
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05-07-2011 09:38 PM  8 years ago
dchekas

rrKey Veteran

Farmington, CT

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Washout arm ejected itself from my T-Rex 600N mid-flight.

Aside from being a little mushy, I landed it no problem.
Team Align, Team Futaba, Team Byron Fuels, Team Thunder Power
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05-07-2011 10:08 PM  8 years ago
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Since there are only two on a FBL head,you can lose either and land OK.

It will shudder and flutter but it won't be hard to handle.
Interesting to know. Thanks.
I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?
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05-07-2011 10:19 PM  8 years ago
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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My buddy broke a flybar while flying a couple of days ago. He landed and his words to me following was "I'm going flybarless because I'm tired of this crap".High Voltage just works better
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05-07-2011 11:14 PM  8 years ago
Rockohaulic

rrElite Veteran

Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Hmmmm... might not be the best rationale for going FBL.

Check it out.

https://rc.runryder.com/t643337p1/
Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know
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05-07-2011 11:25 PM  8 years ago
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Might be the mechanics, not the systems.

I've only been flying three years, never lost a link in flight. and trust me I beat the S$%T out of them.

Try a better pre flight, really TUG on the links, every month inspect your balls, if they start to "pear" up, replace them.

also adopt a maintenance schedule, replace links, replace balls, grease bearings etc etc. You'd be surprised what you find during scheduled maintenance.

In my experience the majority of mechanical and physical electronic failures can be avoided by a good pre flight.

my 2c - j
Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people
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05-08-2011 02:44 AM  8 years ago
tayas

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North East of the USA

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@ helixangle
will it prevent Boom strikes?
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05-08-2011 01:39 PM  8 years ago
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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you know the funny part is as spectacular as boom strikes are they wouldn't be if you could prevent them...

so no.

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people
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05-08-2011 05:39 PM  8 years ago
KC

rrElite Veteran

WA

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Flybars are reliable, but their biggest weakness is on the ground...

they are just easy to bend, whether you catch it on your strap, pant leg, it tips over in the car, etc, etc.

if you lost a link on a FB, it was probably because of that.

Ever notice it spool up all wobbly, then settle out at speed? thats almost always a slightly bent flybar if the blades are already settled in...it smoothes out in hover if its minor, or causes a inconsistent tracking problem if its 'significant'.

As for losing a link with FBL, yeah thats cool, but have you ever lost a gyro or tail before? same thing...

I have six times in twenty years and saved it only 3 times by luck of whatever angle it happened at. Watched an experienced guy blow up his heli last summer because of a faulty FBL setting.....the argument can go both ways and will on here for years.
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05-09-2011 12:58 AM  8 years ago
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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Having a link come off of a control rod that goes to one of the blade grips can result in an equally safe landing on both FB and FBL helis.

The key is the blades used, and the amount of pitch range you have set into it.

First the blades. If they are a properly designed blades and on of these control links is lost, then that blade will simply feather at 0 pitch and the other blade is left to fly the heli.

The key is the pitch available. Let us asume that the two blades together, at a given rotor speed, need 4.5 degrees of pitch to hover it. Now with only one blade providing the lift, that blade will need 9 degrees to do so.

Now for some cyclic control, you will still need a few degrees of cyclic at that pitch to provide some fore-aft and roll cyclic to fly it back. So as long as you have the power to drive such a combination of pitches, you will be able to control the heli to a safe landing.

This works the same with an FB heli, as with an FBL heli.

Over the years I have had a couple of such links come off of flybar equiped helis and they always resulted in a relatively safe landing. This was because the blades I was using resulted in the one simply feathering and the other was able to do the work.

Now if you have a blade that is poorly designed, when this happens, it will not feather, but will most probably go 90 degrees to the 0 pitch setting. This will usually result in an in flight boom strike and the resultant bad crash.
Phil
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05-09-2011 04:52 PM  8 years ago
jackheli

rrProfessor

Vancouver - Canada

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Not sure what Seiji was using (some white blades) but I was flying Rotortech 610s.

Paul was by my side and he saw how uncontrollable the heli was, going straight in.
It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.
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05-09-2011 05:12 PM  8 years ago
martinic

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NB, Canada

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Last year I lost components on my flybarred Trex 500's head and was able to fly it through loops and rolls before I noticed it wasn't flying properly. I landed immediately when I brought it in for a hover and heard the one blade fluttering.

It was the first flight after a rebuild and I had given it what I considered to be a number of pre-flights. Obviously, I missed something. I think it must have been a split link or weakened component and the rest of the damage happened subsequently.

The heli was not hard to fly; I only noticed it's degraded flight performance during agressive flight and the noise in the hover. I didn't perceive any difference in pitch input requirements.
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05-09-2011 05:19 PM  8 years ago
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I lost a link and a buddy lost a link, both on FBL helis, and the helis were not controllable. I really think it depends on the situation.........RonTeam MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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05-09-2011 06:28 PM  8 years ago
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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If you have blades that feather it really helps. Most 3D type of blades will not feather as they use an aggressive rearward CCG relative to the CL. On the other hand, most genuine FAI or FBL blades will feather because they are designed with different CCG's relative to the CL.

Jack, with RT blades, the 610's are the more aggressive 3D design, that is why they have a 66 as the last two numbers in their part number (e.g. 266166). The FAI/FBL blade would be the ones with 01 as the last two numbers (e.g. 266001).

Also to consider is the head designs themselves. Some FB heads are more dynamically stable (or neutral) then others.

That is what makes helis so interesting, the heads and all components associated with them all work together in different ways so they will all influence the end result in any given situation.
Phil
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05-09-2011 07:04 PM  8 years ago
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Encinitas, CA

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If you lose a blade, it kinda depends on luck I guess?

I have lost a link to blades twice with a FB. Once it was landed perfectly fine on a Fury, the other time it resulted in some new blades and parts on a Bergen.

I lost a link on a logo 600 FBL with vbar and was able to keep it level, but it felt harder/more unstable than when I lost a link on FB both times, but I was able to land it hard and broke the skids and thankfully not the blades.

I have lost a servo twice on CCPM both FB and FBL and both endings were not pretty.
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05-09-2011 07:38 PM  8 years ago
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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My other flying buddy had a FB break on him doing flips yesterday. He saw it fly off and was able to land easily. The heli really only started to wobble on spool down. That makes no less than 5 flybar breaks between my two FB buddies. We had a guy from the Jackson Mississipi club there at the time and he said that nobody at their club has ever broken a flybar. It's weird I tell ya...High Voltage just works better
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05-09-2011 07:47 PM  8 years ago
Havoc

rrElite Veteran

Ky.

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I have lost a servo twice on CCPM both FB and FBL and both endings were not pretty
Part of my preflight is to pull the cyclic to one corner and release it. Twice over the last several years I have caught bad servos this way. They will just keep moving back and forth like the pot is bad. It is not subtle either. One on a mechanical mix (sceadu) and one on a CCPM (Vibe). One servo was Futaba and one was JR. On FBL where you are not really supposed to move the sticks before flight, a little extra caution would be needed for that test. Not sure if it would have found yours.
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05-09-2011 08:03 PM  8 years ago
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Encinitas, CA

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Once was due to a plug coming out of the receiver(on a vbar logo 500)and the other was due to me forgetting to put the screw back in the servo horn after adjusting some stuff (long long time ago), doh!
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