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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsFutaba CGY › Piro comp already...wow that was fast!
05-09-2011 07:19 PM  7 years agoPost 61
Zaaaguy72

rrElite Veteran

MN

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What is the difference between "alot of throw and resolution"? The more throw you have available to hit your desired parameters (Collective and cyclic) the more resolution you have, right?

Team Sanjel!

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05-09-2011 07:20 PM  7 years agoPost 62
BrainDrain_dx

rrKey Veteran

Wichita KS

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sounded the same to me too!

KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa

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05-09-2011 09:44 PM  7 years agoPost 63
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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What is the difference between "alot of throw and resolution"? The more throw you have available to hit your desired parameters (Collective and cyclic) the more resolution you have, right?
I don’t think so?

If you have a 2048 system and have +/- 10 degrees than you have 102.4 steps per degree (2048/20). If you up that to +/-15 you will only have 68.3 stips (2048/30).

... BTS

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05-09-2011 10:08 PM  7 years agoPost 64
Zaaaguy72

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MN

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So when setting up the 750, how do you know if you are in the sweet spot? Vbar and MB let you know if you are in optimal ranges, how do you know with the 750?

Team Sanjel!

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05-10-2011 01:03 AM  7 years agoPost 65
Kevin Dalrymple

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis

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Test fly it. Too much throw makes the heli slow and too little makes the heli to twitchy. I have mine dialed in on my Trex 700N. It is set up just like the 3G was.

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05-10-2011 02:21 AM  7 years agoPost 66
Zaaaguy72

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MN

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That is pretty obvious. I was just wondering if there is a way on the bench to know if you have enough resolution with the 750.

Team Sanjel!

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05-10-2011 02:36 AM  7 years agoPost 67
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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I would like to know when they would release it to the public.

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05-10-2011 03:55 AM  7 years agoPost 68
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Mechanical set up which gets the swash AFR's at 50 to 60-some odd percent with your desired collective range and about 8-9 D of cyclic puts the system resolution where the 750 prefers it.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-10-2011 05:33 AM  7 years agoPost 69
joe1l

rrNovice

long valley, NJ

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Dr Ben, correct me if i'm wrong, but increasing the resolution will allow you to increase the AVCS.Dmp value while not negatively effecting the control feel. The higher the AVCS.dmp the more stable the heli is the higher the cyclic gains you can run giving you all around a better more stable heli.

This is what i noticed by increasing my resolution just a bit to the point where 8 degrees was at 45% and is now at 48% meanwhile I was able to increase my AVCS.dmp rate from 98% to 99% without losing any control feel, making my heli more solid in wind etc. My gains went up from 42 to 52 on ail and from 50 to 65 on Elev.

Fusion 50 CGY750 YGE90HV
Outrage 550 BeastX Jive100
Gaui X5 Vbar 5.1
Gaui X5 CGY750

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05-10-2011 05:51 AM  7 years agoPost 70
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Your observations are consistent with what I believe to be true. In most cases where guys have complained of poor overall performance and lack of locked in feel, I've often traced the issue back to excessively low swash AFR due excessive mechanical travel and correspondingly low cyclic gain. I've seen guys try to run the AFR's at ~ 40% in even 600/700 class models with gains around 50%. That is NOT the way to make this system perform at its best; it it really spoils a really nice flying system.

The other thing guys ought to understand is that while the higher AVCS damp values come with the higher flight modes, you can run the higher damp values in the lower flight modes by tweaking them in the AIL and ELE EXPERT menus. Thus you can have the higher heading hold charateristic but mantain the softer feel created by the control delay and the higher expo (if you've chosen to set your expo in the amp versus the transmitter - NOT both).

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-10-2011 05:56 AM  7 years agoPost 71
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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I was thinking about this the other day, with the new 37KG and .11sec transit time from futaba I wonder if there is any benefit to have a faster servo???

What would be better a stronger servo and balls closer to the outer of the horn or a faster servo and closer to the centre of the horn???

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05-10-2011 06:14 AM  7 years agoPost 72
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Regardless of the kind of control system, hi speed with the ball as close to the axis of rotation as possible should be preferred because it's more resolute and more rigid. The limiting factor is needed travel, and THAT VARIES WITH THE FBL SYSTEM. You can't go too far in on the wheel or you won't have enough mechanical throw to allow for collective + cyclic + needed additional travel for eCCPM compensation mixers. FBL systems benefit greatly from fast servos AND powerful servos; this is no application for el-cheapo/lousy servos.

Going out further on a servo arm and relying on torque can quickly become problematic when the gets ANY degree of slop in the geartrain because while the slop in the servo is technically the same regardless of the size of the servo arm attached, the PERCENTAGE that slop is of the servo's stroke is much greater when you throw a long arm a short distance versus a short arm a longer distance. I can think of one model that uses large servo wheels AND multiplier bellcranks. Suffice it to say you can appreciate a TON of slop in the system from what is actually very little backlash in the servo geartrain.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-10-2011 06:22 AM  7 years agoPost 73
helicraze

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Victoria - Australia

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So i wonder any benefit going from BLS451 .10 sec 10KG to new futaba's 31KG .14sec at 6V or should i really use 7.4V and get 37KG and .11sec to see any difference in flight?

Just wondering if the speed difference is likely to be felt or the amount of torque the new servo has outweighs it?

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05-10-2011 06:43 AM  7 years agoPost 74
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Power is important of course, but the high speed of all that power makes the difference. Servos such as the BLS255HV make a stunning difference in the performance of a FBL system. I know one pilot that was able to increase his cyclic (AIL) gain by 20+% when he went to BLS255's on 2S voltage.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-10-2011 03:09 PM  7 years agoPost 75
Zaaaguy72

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MN

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Thanks Ben, I am well within those ranges.

Team Sanjel!

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05-10-2011 03:12 PM  7 years agoPost 76
Joe90

rrApprentice

Quebec, Canada

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from what to BLS255HV ?
the get stunning difference

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05-10-2011 03:23 PM  7 years agoPost 77
SkyfoxSXer

rrApprentice

Gainseville,VA

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I'm up to 93% gain on a Logo 600 with the balls 16mm out on the servo horns. In idleup 1 at 2100 I get a aileron wobble at any thing above 78% but in idleup 2 at 2300 it is solid at 93%. I'm running 2S on BLS253s which should be around the same spec as the BLS255. I plan on upping the gain to 98% next time out.

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05-10-2011 04:03 PM  7 years agoPost 78
joe1l

rrNovice

long valley, NJ

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I was originally thinking that the Vbar required more throw and less resolution but i was wrong...infact both systems require an optimal amount of resolution. For any Vbar owners you will recall that during the cyclic setup you need to set your cyclic to exactly 8 degrees using a slider. If you get exactly 8 degrees with your slider set to 100% then your setup is optimal for FBL on the vbar and i believe it is also optimal for the CGY750 as well. The lower you have the slider..say 75%, then the less resolution you have. If you are above 100% then you have more resolution. etc.

Fusion 50 CGY750 YGE90HV
Outrage 550 BeastX Jive100
Gaui X5 Vbar 5.1
Gaui X5 CGY750

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05-10-2011 10:40 PM  7 years agoPost 79
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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So in theory, the more optimal the range the more gain i can run.

The higher the RPM the higher or lower the gain???

Still i want to know, as all the high torque (15KG+ servos) are .11sec or SLOWER and the faster ones (under .10sec) are under 15KG, what is more desirable servo to buy????

Thanks

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05-10-2011 11:41 PM  7 years agoPost 80
knightofcarnage

rrElite Veteran

chicago

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Faster is better for FBL's (3D). (off topic: anyone know the model number for 8V tail servo from futaba)

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