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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsBeastX › Did my flybarless system go nuts???
04-25-2011 06:34 PM  10 years ago
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Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Did my flybarless system go nuts???
My Rave 90 ENV Nitro went in hard this weekend. There were 3 of us who saw it go in, and none of us has ever seen a crash so sudden and violent.

It was a couple minutes into the 3rd flight of the day. I had just done a stall turn and was heading back across the field when suddenly it shook violently and slammed into the ground. It was like a huge, mad rottweiler grabbed the heli in it’s fangs, shook it violently in its death grip, and then slammed its victim mercilessly into the ground.

Below are some pictures of the carnage.

What I do know: I know it wasn’t dumb thumbs, and I know it wasn’t a mechanical failure. If it was mechanical, it would have simply felt weird, or wouldn’t have responded correctly to input. But that wasn’t the case.

Was it the BeastX? I don’t think so, but I don’t think you can rule it out. Has anyone else had this happen due to a BeastX???

Was it a radio hit? Well, could you get a radio hit on a 2.4 system that would drive all the servos crazy for a couple seconds? I don’t really know.

So – I am open to your theories. What do you think it might have been?

I know I will probably never find out what it was, and there is nothing worse than not knowing, since there is nothing to fix or avoid in the future. But I would like to toss around some ideas so I can at least try to avoid this in the future.

Here is my setup:
JR 921 RX
Scott Grey ReactorX
Relion 5200 Li-Ion Battery
BeastX Flybarless System
JR 8717 Servos

Thanks for your help!

Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know
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04-25-2011 09:40 PM  10 years ago
nickwap

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Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland, England

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Sorry to hear about your loss
What voltage were you running your 8717's anything more than 6v maybe pushing it with a FBL setup?

Nick
"Give me another one, this one's broke!"
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04-25-2011 09:52 PM  10 years ago
nickt919

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New Orleans, Louisiana

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Was it the BeastX? I don’t think so, but I don’t think you can rule it out. Has anyone else had this happen due to a BeastX???

Was it a radio hit? Well, could you get a radio hit on a 2.4 system that would drive all the servos crazy for a couple seconds? I don’t really know.

So – I am open to your theories. What do you think it might have been?
My vote goes toward the FBL unit.... I've been flying 7+ years and my heli had never done a crack move until I strapped a FBL unit on. The way you describe your crash sure sounds like an uncommanded crack move. It was your 3rd flight so the Relion 5200 should have been plenty good assuming it was full when you went out that day and there's no serious binding or otherwise drawing LOTS of power.
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04-25-2011 11:53 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

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Cranston Ri

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What voltage were you running your 8717's anything more than 6v maybe pushing it with a FBL setup?
has nothing to do with it alot of us been running 8v thru them for years on fbl.

to hard to say what caused it could be link popped off if flight

could be fbl unit failed turn it on and see if it works normal, if it were bad it will be bad still.

rx failed

scott grey reg failed

very hard to say for sure
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04-26-2011 12:00 AM  10 years ago
PaulBowen

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Australia

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Sorry to hear this.

I have had my BeastX go nuts twice now with quite destructive and expensive results.

Mine is on it's way back to the manufacturer and I suggest you send yours back as well.

Good luck.
Quest NEO Caliber ZG, Zenoah G260PUH, CGY760R, NHP 750, NHP 115.
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04-26-2011 12:04 AM  10 years ago
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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I have a theory...

I am betting there is a big difference between loosing a link with a flybarred system, and loosing a link with a flybarless system

A flybarred helicopter acts like an open-loop system, think of it as passive. The pilot makes a command, and the servos move and wait for the next command. A flybarless helicopter acts like a closed-loop system. Think of it as active. The swash is constantly being monitored and controlled by 2 gyros in addition to the pilot.

Flybarred Behavior
If a link pops off of a flybarred helicopter, the helicopter does not “react” because it is passive. The bird of course will not fly correctly, and it may roll in and crash, or you may be able to save it, but it will definitely fly strange.

Flybarless Behavior
However, if a link pops off a flybarless system, the helicopter “reacts” because it is active. The flybarless system literally tries to compensate for the fact that the link popped off. It attempts to correct for any strange flight behavior. Of course it can not since the link has popped off, and it quickly builds into violent oscillations of the swash. It would be quite similar to having extremely high gain on a tail gyro and seeing excessive tail wag.

Anyway – I am betting this could be the cause of the sudden and violent shaking.
Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know
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04-26-2011 12:07 AM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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yup link popping off could be it, its no pretty on a fbl heli.
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04-26-2011 12:15 AM  10 years ago
TrevJonez

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St.George, Utah - USA

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did you check your RX lights to make sure you didn't have any holds? i just crashed my 600 this month due to a radio glitch.

i crashed my 600 once due to popped link with my 3G on it. best i can describe the movement was a chicken dance in the air. i hit throttle hold 30-35 feet up and watched it fall into a corn field. had to jump a irrigation canal and get tangled up in barbed wire to get to it. still have the scars to prove it! was one of the worse crashes with my 600. had just got new radix blades and a new canopy on it

as for the beast. i have heard of people saying the power bus isn't adequate for high draw servo's? personally i call BS on that but im no electrical engineer.
Who cares... its just money...
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04-26-2011 01:26 AM  10 years ago
Ducati996

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Reno, Nevada

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Relion 5200
I lost a heli to one of these batteries
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04-26-2011 04:06 AM  10 years ago
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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as for the beast. i have heard of people saying the power bus isn't adequate for high draw servo's? personally i call BS on that but im no electrical engineer.
I was not running high current draw servos through the MB unit. The BeastX is upstream of my regulator. What this means is that the Battery connects directly to the ReactorX & the servos connect to the ReactorX, so the BeastX never sees a large current demand.
Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know
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04-26-2011 05:07 AM  10 years ago
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Well, we certainly couldn't have a link issue if all the links were still connected.

But guess what? One of the links from the swash to the blade grips was missing.

So - could be the cause. Could have popped off in the crash....

Hmmmm................
Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know
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04-26-2011 05:22 AM  10 years ago
maxxteezy

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texas

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99% Sure it was a link popped off. Had it happen to me a few times. I was doing some tick tocks with my Yardbird 690 and I pulled back then wham! It did the retarded holy chicken crump dance and then boom struck right into the dirt. Found a busted link...Another time I had a bolt come off the muffler and go into one of the rotors and knock off a link, did the same goofy dance right before it hit. It happened to Nalizan with his 500, but it was fb so he was able to land it, barely. One of the mixing arm links popped off and it started doing some unwanted crack before he got it down. I know that dance as soon as I see it...YardBird Rc
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04-26-2011 06:22 AM  10 years ago
Kevin Feil

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Newnan, Georgia, USA

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Total loss
Hey Bro,

I have had the same thing happen only with much less destruction. My Issue was caused from a link popping off. I run a TREX6 FBL and it went nuts. I stirred the stick real quick and realized nobody was home. Hit throttle hold and pumped every bit of collective I had to stall the blades. Blade stop Three Holed Brick. Fortunately I landed it from a 100 ft smack dab on the skids and that was all that Broke. Upon investigation I found one blade link bent at the ball link in a perfect 90 degrees. I can't help but to agree with the other guys but it sounds exactly like my deal. I just wish yours had better end results!! I change every link on every Heli to Rocket links. Never had another issue. Best of luck!!

Cheers,
Kevin
" hollywood3160 "Team Synergy Factory Specialist, Team Futaba USA, Morgan Fuels
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04-26-2011 12:54 PM  10 years ago
astr0b0y

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Australia

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I've had my BeastX cause servo's to move back and forth fully and quickly when on the bench. This was due to my LiPo being low on power. It was quite strange to see, each servo (except the tail) going a random direction to full deflection then go the other way. I had no idea what was going on, so I unplugged and replugged and as soon as it had initialised an I moved the stick the same thing happened.
Maybe it was an issue with your power source? What's left in the LiPo?
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04-26-2011 04:44 PM  10 years ago
Eric L

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Minnesota

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my vote is a link poppedTeam KingKongHobbies.com-----Team Synergy
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04-26-2011 05:33 PM  10 years ago
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Maybe it was an issue with your power source? What's left in the LiPo?
It was a Li-Ion battery, and I started that flight at a nice 7.5 volts. The battery was trashed in the crash - so I can't get a reading off it.
Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know
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04-26-2011 05:46 PM  10 years ago
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Was that the third flight of the day on the same flight pack or was it charged in between??Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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04-26-2011 05:56 PM  10 years ago
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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It's a 5200 mah Li-Ion pack.

It starts the day at 8.0 - 7.9 volts. It uses about 0.2 volts per flight. I normally get at least 5 flights on this big guy.
Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know
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04-26-2011 06:08 PM  10 years ago
joe1l

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long valley, NJ

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I see you are running a ReactorX with 8717's. How new is the regulator? The reason I ask is because a while back i had read about issues with the ReactorX where the a solder joint on the board could become weak due to vibration. This inturn could of caused issues. I think you should be able to open it up and check for problems. The only other thing i would look for is static issues but if you have Rave90 they are TT so it should not have caused it. I know the SGP ReactorX's are great and i own one myself but their have been a few incidents and it might be worth looking into.

i have only read a few threads where they failed. Mostly on Nitros

https://rc.runryder.com/t451773p1/?highlight=scott+gray

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=110574
Fusion 50 CGY750 YGE90HV
Outrage 550 BeastX Jive100
Gaui X5 Vbar 5.1
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02-12-2012 09:44 PM  9 years ago
JoseReyes

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Steilacoom, WA USA

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Ref Beastx flybarless
I just had this same thing happened to me on a TRex 600 with the new AR7200BX, same scenario as yours.... Major disaster, lost the whole bird, in my case it flew fine for about 6 minutes then it started, all links on the swash where in place, so I know it was not the links...

My head speed when it happened, first time 1200, then it happened again at 1400,it flew fine at 1400 for 6 minutes, then it happened, I'm leaning towards low head speed, and or too high of gain on the swash gain pot #1...

This is on a Scale to be setup... Four blade RCA plug-n-play head, 4 TF Model semi-symmetrical 600mm blades and two blade tail.
Jose
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