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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › ICG540 Gyro Limited Movement Problem
04-25-2011 10:17 AM  10 years ago
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bstafford

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Mansfield, United Kingdom

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ICG540 Gyro Limited Movement Problem
Hello Group,
Have Update on my progress.

Looking for advice on how to improve the movement of my Servo Rudder on my Shuttle Z+.

Currently using the following components:
1. Sanwa RD6000 Sport TX
2. Sanwa RX-611 Receiver
3. ICG-540 Gyro
4. Futaba S3003 Servo

Main problem on this is the Servo Rudder has very limited movement on its range. Have set all settings to default and started setting up again. Checked for any binding of the rod and positioned in different positions on the servo. Just can't get much range movement on the servo and asking what else to check for a problem or setting to look for.

Have tested the server with my Esky 000537 Pulse Generator Servo Tester and have done both Manual and Auto modes.

Done the test with both Rudder Rod connected and disconnected to ensure proper operation while using the servo tester and all passes perfectly.

Also have now gone thru the alignment setup of the Sanwa RD-6000 and using Normal Mode for Heli and Ch 2, everything sets properly and the Radio is functioning properly as far as ability to get all settings to the manual.

My radio of course has 4 channels and they have all been set for Heli as I have no aircraft as I am only a Heli man. Anyway have tried all 4 channels to make sure there was no issue with an individual channel and they all check out the same.

Have completed the Gyro adjustment on the Radio and have the setup for Normal Mode at 100%. I have also gone thru the range from -150% all the way to +150% which does not fix my problem. I believe it is not for this purpose to fix my range maybe, does this have to be done on a computer with the Gyro software?

Anyone have an ideas or suggestions please, also to tell you I am a beginner on Heli's, but have done my reading of the Shuttle manual and Sanwa TX manual and do understand and have the knowledge I feel.

However, that said, this is my 1st one I am trying out.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Bill
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04-25-2011 01:18 PM  10 years ago
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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This might help

http://www.raptortechnique.com/csm400-rd6000.htm

The ATV won't make any difference on the travel limit. ATV/EPA affects how fast the gyro will spin the heli. I haven't setup the CSM 540 but most heading hold gyro's have some type of limit adjustment on the gyro itself such as a pot adjustment.

How far out do you have the connection on the tail servo horn?
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04-25-2011 01:32 PM  10 years ago
ShuRugal

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Richmond, VA

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found a manual: http://www.rcmodels.org/csm/M5404.DOC

Auto-setup instructions begin on page 7. Third step is travel-limits. Instructions say that once you have reached the travel-limits portion of setup, the servo will travel fully to one of the limits set, and then you adjust the limit my moving your rudder stick. When that limit is where you want it, toggle the gain switch to store it, and then the other limit may be entered.
AMA 700159
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04-25-2011 04:13 PM  10 years ago
RyanW

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Edmond, Oklahoma

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Just to add to this, make sure your 5th channel is set up as remote gain on your gyro. If you don't have this connected/set up you won't be able to get into the gyro set up (toggling the switch).

Please let us know how it is coming along.

Thanks,
-Ryan
Mikado USA, Kontronik, Opti-Power, MKS Servos
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04-26-2011 06:52 AM  10 years ago
bstafford

rrNovice

Mansfield, United Kingdom

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ICG540 Gyro Limited Movement Problem
Hello,

Thanks for the replies on this issue. Here is some feedback on my troubleshooting.

jschenck
"Most heading hold gyro's have some type of limit adjustment on the gyro itself such as a pot adjustment.
How far out do you have the connection on the tail servo horn?"

There are no pot adj on this model gyro for the ICG540. The gyro servo is mounted on this Shuttle Z+ at the beginning of the tail rod, so the if your asking distance from Gyro to servo it is approx 350mm and the servo link rod is approx 600mm to tail rotor. I believe thru the reading of all docs on this ICG540 it is setup using adapter connector to a computer and a DOS program I have found. I will have to make a cable to go to my printer port to try and use this, but will have to wait till next weekend to attempt this.

ShuRugal
"Auto-setup instructions begin on page 7."
Performing the auto setup
To access the auto setup you toggle the gain switch a couple of times during the gyro boot-up time (this is the first few seconds after the radio system is powering up).

I am unsure about this instruction as I read this, there is no reference to the type or model of Transmitter they are using, unless I missed further up the previous pages. Do you know what the gain switch is on the Sanwa RD6000 Sport, which is the radio I use?


RyanW
"Just to add to this, make sure your 5th channel is set up as remote gain on your gyro."

Have checked and tripled checked where all connectors go to and from Gyro and the RX-611 Receiver, every connection is correct.

If I can find the method other than trying to connect the Gyro to the computer to setup the memory settings, this of course would be easier. I will continue to read up all info that has been sent and continue also searching for other documents. I have both manuals for the Sanwa RD6000 Sport (don't see reference to gain toggle switch) and for the Shuttle Z+, also the ICG540. There is some information not 100% clear on the Gyro, but still trying.

Thanks again for the help and if you have other comments and ideas I would also appreciate that as well.

Regards
Bill
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04-26-2011 01:23 PM  10 years ago
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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jschenck
"Most heading hold gyro's have some type of limit adjustment on the gyro itself such as a pot adjustment.
How far out do you have the connection on the tail servo horn?"

There are no pot adj on this model gyro for the ICG540. The gyro servo is mounted on this Shuttle Z+ at the beginning of the tail rod, so the if your asking distance from Gyro to servo it is approx 350mm and the servo link rod is approx 600mm to tail rotor. I believe thru the reading of all docs on this ICG540 it is setup using adapter connector to a computer and a DOS program I have found. I will have to make a cable to go to my printer port to try and use this, but will have to wait till next weekend to attempt this.
What I am looking for is the distance of the ball link on the servo horn from the center of the servo horn. If it's too far out that will increase the mechanical gain and cause a tail wag. I would guess a good place to start with that servo would be 11mm but that's just a guess.

The Futaba 3003 is a slow servo. It should work if you can find the proper setup but if you can you may want to buy a slightly better servo, say one rated at .15 sec 60º sweep such as a Hitec HS525. If course a $100 + servo would be best but IMO not needed.

I have the Airtronics RD8000 but it been a number of years since I've used it. I may be able to help setup your RD6000 sport if you have specific questions with it. The gain switch is likely the toggle switch for channel 5 unless you have the gain mixed into the idle-up switch. If the gain is mixed into the idle-up switch then you use the idle-up switch to toggle between gain settings. Study the directions for the gyro and manual for that radio. You need to get the gyro in the setup mode so you can adjust the travel limits.
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04-26-2011 01:41 PM  10 years ago
ShuRugal

rrKey Veteran

Richmond, VA

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http://www.pitlab.pl/doc/RD6000%20Sport%20Manual.pdf

page 55 instructs how to set up gyro gain control in your RD6000

According to your gyro manual, heading hold gain range is between 0 and 50, with 0 being 100% gain, and 50 being 0% gain as set in the radio, and normal mode is 50 to 100, with 50 being 0% and 100 being 100%

so, set your gyro gain in radio to be between 50 and 100 for one flight mode, and then set the other from 0 to 50. use flight mode switch to toggle gyro gain.
AMA 700159
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04-28-2011 08:03 AM  10 years ago
bstafford

rrNovice

Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Hello,

Thanks for the reply on this problem and your continued help. Below is the status of your comments and recommendations:

ShuRugal
"so, set your gyro gain in radio to be between 50 and 100 for one flight mode
"

I have gone thru this section before, but now because of your comments on this I have a better understanding of the settings. Have set nMode to 150% gain and F1 mode left at default for now, and also F2 mode at its 100% default and will try the different levels of gain.

jschenck
"What I am looking for is the distance of the ball link on the servo horn from the center of the servo horn.
"

Now I understand what your referring to, I have measured the distance and is about 10mm, I believe it is okay and also looking around for a better rudder servo for response time as you suggested.

Will be playing with the setups and more reading on the gyro and radio manual today. Maybe other questions after experimenting with some other settings.

Thanks for the help and information as I really appreciate this.

Regards

Bill
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04-28-2011 02:06 PM  10 years ago
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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#1 suggestion - work on figuring out how to setup the gyro's travel limit. This is a *must do*.

Then try flying it. If the servo doesn't meet your flying needs then look into upgrading it. I've flown heli's with S148 servos on the tail, it works.
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04-28-2011 04:31 PM  10 years ago
bstafford

rrNovice

Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Hi,

Thanks for the feedback, now home from work and ready to play and figure out how to do this travel limit setting. Will let you know how I get on with this later on.

Cheers
Bill
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04-28-2011 04:53 PM  10 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Y'all are making this way too hard.

On the TX set the gyro gain for +75% for HH in flight mode Normal, Flight mode 1 or idle up can be set to -75% (rate mode)temporarily and make sure the the throttle curve and pitch curve are the same for Normal and Flight mode 1 for now. This is just temporary to setup the gyro. Make sure there is no REVO mix active in any flight mode. Zero out the values. Set the EPA for rudder to 100% in both directions.

Set the servo limits in the gyro as instructed in the 540 directions and go fly. Select FM1 and mechanically trim the tail for no rotation. Switch the mode back to Normal mode and make sure there is no drift. 540's were better then the 360's that came before them. Once the tail is trimmed you can make Flight mode 1 active for aerobatics and set the gyro gain to a positive value so it works in HH mode. Set the Throttle hold gain for the same as the other flight modes and autos should be a non issue.

Set the piro response with the radio rudder epa's. Once the tail servo is mechanically trimmed you should reset the rudder endpoints in the gyro as they can change after the mechanical trimming process. There is no need for the software to make the ICG 540 work.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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04-28-2011 07:01 PM  10 years ago
bstafford

rrNovice

Mansfield, United Kingdom

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Hi TM,

I appreciate your input and comments and will work thru your method and should I have any questions will post again.

Currently the settings of the Gyro seems much better after going thru the gain adjustments earlier. Now working to set the Throttle adjustments and checking engine as it dies when trying to accelerate. So need to make sure that setup is working properly or engine has problem itself.

Doing much better on the understanding and setup as I do more reading here and in the manuals, considering still a newbie at the RC hobby still.

Again thanks for all your inputs and will come back later to let you know how I am doing.

Cheers

Bill
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