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Mikado
Other › New 600Se motor
04-23-2011 02:18 AM  7 years agoPost 1
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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So I built a 600se for a customer, Castle 160HV esc and scorpion 4225 LE motor. Turns out this combo isn't all that powerful and gets really hot(175-190). So he wants the MAX now. He already decided on a Kontronic Jive 120 esc and now were discussing motors. Some of the obvious choices are the Pyro 700(45or52?), the scorpion 4035, or maybe too crazy but I think a 5035 would fit. I mean I don't wanna rip out the one way bearing everytime he jams on it but im lookin for major collective snap. So what do you guys think? Moneys not so much a factor just want ultimate performance. We run it 10S. Has anyone tried a 5035? I've seen the 5020 for sure.

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04-23-2011 02:24 AM  7 years agoPost 2
Steff Giguere

rrProfessor

St-Eustache, Quebec, Canada

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I run mine on 12S, Pyro 450kv, Kontronik 80HV, 11 tooth pinion.

Team Synergy, Rail blades, Team Scorpion, V-Team

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04-23-2011 03:01 AM  7 years agoPost 3
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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The guy bought a dozen TP 45c 5S packs and it would be a shame to not use em. Would the 52 be better for 10s?

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04-23-2011 07:04 AM  7 years agoPost 4
dahld

rrKey Veteran

Bakersfield, CA, USA

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We have tested the 5035 on the Logo XXtreme (800mm blades). The problem is that the currently available 5035's have either a kv too low for 10S applications with the Logo 600SE's gearing, or the shafts are 8mm, and don't fit Mikado 6mm pinions for the Logo 600SE.

Also, the motor is WAYYYY to big and heavy for a Logo 600SE. And besides, it would probably rip the one-way right out of the gear (-:

(-: Dave

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04-23-2011 07:26 AM  7 years agoPost 5
jphilli

rrKey Veteran

Atlanta, Ga.

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A 4035-560 can eat one-way bearings, main gears and pinions all day long. Would hate to see how much damage a 5000 series could do.

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04-23-2011 03:04 PM  7 years agoPost 6
worldofmaya

rrApprentice

Graz, Styria - Austria

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You're using the CC Governor? If that's the case you'll not find a better motor... the CC governor sucks. Just try a Jive or set-up a vbar governor. But it would be better to use another Esc for the VBar Gov because of the delay CC is using.
About heat... depends on settings... the 4225 doesn't run that cool, but should be a really good choice.
Th 5035 isn't the right choice for an Logo...
-Klaus

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04-23-2011 04:37 PM  7 years agoPost 7
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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We are running the castle 160 right now but the jive 120 is on the way. Do you really think just switching sec's will make a huge difference? That 4225 was supposed to be badass but it really lacks pop and gets soo hot. Just as a side question are you Jive users using the BEC that's built in or a separate power source? Currently it has a 2S running direct to the outrage HV servos. I'd like to remove the pack and make it lighter. Lastly if money wasn't the issue would you guys prefer 4035 or Pyro700 and if the Pyro which one for 10S the 45 or 52? Looking for power not run time.

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04-23-2011 05:03 PM  7 years agoPost 8
jphilli

rrKey Veteran

Atlanta, Ga.

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The pyro is lighter but I've never actually flown one. I do fly a Jive 120 on my 600 but don't use the BEC after an incident last year where I had a brown out at the stock voltage with 8717's. Now I just use a straight 2s lipo with a reg for the tail servo.

But if you want some power, you can't go wrong with a 4035. I've posted these videos a few times before but check them out:

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

These are from a 4035-560 on 12s. Flights don't last long but with the speed and power, it's absolutely worth it to me.

-Caleb

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04-23-2011 05:17 PM  7 years agoPost 9
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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Wow man that looks like what he wants. Now he has 20-30 6s 5000's for his 700E and X5 but were really trying to stick with 10S cause otherwise he can't use the dozen thunder power 5S packs he bought. I guess we can stick with the 2S lipo for the control systems but I really wanted to save the weight :-\ is there a 4035 that still screams on 10S?

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04-23-2011 07:35 PM  7 years agoPost 10
jphilli

rrKey Veteran

Atlanta, Ga.

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I've never run the 4035 on 10s but a similar setup is possible with 10s. Matt Botos usually has a pretty quick setup and he runs hacker motors on 10s.

What you'll be most concerned with is current draw but with a Jive 120 that is a non-issue. The TP packs are pretty awesome so your buddies' setup should scream with no trouble.

As an aside, I'm a total power junkie and many people cringe at the inefficiency in my setup but I could care a less since it's so fun. With that said a 4035 on 10s with a 13t pinion should provide similar results to mine and although there are many other motors that could work better, I don't have first hand experience so I can't comment on that.

Anyhow, I usually shoot for 2600+ rpm on the head with 600mm blades and keep the swash range mechanically limited or just under.

One last thing, my 12s packs are 3300 MaH but I wouldn't really want to go any higher capacity due to weight.

-Caleb

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04-23-2011 08:11 PM  7 years agoPost 11
worldofmaya

rrApprentice

Graz, Styria - Austria

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Do you really think just switching sec's will make a huge difference?
Definitely yes.
I'm flying or have flown quit a lot from Kontronik Jazz, Jive, YGE, CC, Hacker.... CC for about 4 years now in my Logo.
That being said CCs Governor sucks... it reacts way too late... you compare data logs with exactly the same setup and just compare a CC and a Kontronik or a YGE. This "late" reactions makes the Governor really soft which feels like it doesn't have power... you just need to know what you want from your Esc to find the right Esc. If it's a good governor in nearly every throttle setting and easy setup, you'll enjoy Kontronik.
You'll see it when using a Jive! If it's setup right, you get near to none bogging which feels like you're model reacts to any input without any delay.
-Klaus

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04-23-2011 10:08 PM  7 years agoPost 12
SkyfoxSXer

rrApprentice

Gainseville,VA

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Are you planning on running 690mm blades. If you are, you will never get the kind of pop and speed that you see in the videos posted by Caleb. That power comes from a combo of light weight and very high headspeed (2600+) and you cant safely run 690 blades at those headspeeds. If you want that kind of response put some 620mm blades on the SE and keep the 4225. Daniel Katzav runs that motor in his 600 3D at 2250 and it looks pretty powerful.

Watch at YouTube

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04-23-2011 10:38 PM  7 years agoPost 13
jphilli

rrKey Veteran

Atlanta, Ga.

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Good point, I temporarily forgot about the 690's when I said go with a 13t pinion.

-Caleb

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04-24-2011 02:17 AM  7 years agoPost 14
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Awesome flight Caleb. What pinion are you using?

High Voltage just works better

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04-25-2011 12:56 AM  7 years agoPost 15
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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Well guys thanks for all the help. I think were going to un SE this thing and put the jive on it. If that's not enough then it's 4035 time. Could last questions. Should I go thru the trouble of putting the shorter boom in it? Would the longer boom help or hurt performance? Also if the Bec in the Jive has caused crashes I don't want to use it. Has anyone tried the western robotics Hercules Bec with this kind of setup? It says good up to 14S. Thanks for all the help guys.

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04-25-2011 12:14 PM  7 years agoPost 16
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Get the jive, if you run 5.6V default there is not issue on ANY of the servos.

The 4225LE motor is really for 50 size I would have though it would be sweet on 690MM, only KV too high so only 10S could be used.

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04-25-2011 02:32 PM  7 years agoPost 17
Benth

rrApprentice

New London Ct

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The problem with 5.6 is this logo has the outrage HV servos that like 8.4V. They run noticeable slower at 5.6. As far as the 4225 I had to turn all the timing down in the esc just to keep it in the 170-180 range.

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04-25-2011 08:20 PM  7 years agoPost 18
jphilli

rrKey Veteran

Atlanta, Ga.

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Thanks Rogman! Pinion on there is an 11t. The rest of the power setup is 12s, 4035-560, and PowerJive 120+

helicraze, I love Kontroniks but honestly the Jive 120+ cannot safely run 8717's at the stock voltage. I had a lockout at the backside of a screaming loop that left my helicopter response-less for a very obvious amount of time and distance until it inevitably crashed. I know everybody's setup and style is different and mine greatly influenced the lockout but I still say that it's just not safe.

Kontroniks prints in the Jive manual that you should use a buffer pack for 6.0V or higher but with 8717's you either need a buffer pack at any voltage or you should just skip the BEC and use a 2s lipo.

I'm sure there are many setups that work without a buffer even at 6V but I highly recommend against that. The only downside to adding the extra battery pack (2s 2200) is the weight but with a Logo that little bit of weight is not felt in the air. You will however notice a slightly tighter control loop with the extra voltage which gives your heli an even more locked in feeling than with the lesser 5.6V.

-Caleb

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04-26-2011 06:46 AM  7 years agoPost 19
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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I run 8717 on 5.6V on 90 size machine, and i know a few others, not sure why you have that issue.

You could try the WR BEC 10A cont i think upto 14S

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04-27-2011 06:47 PM  7 years agoPost 20
Bob Wales (RIP)

rrKey Veteran

Lebanon CT

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Im running mine with the pyro 700-52 on the Jive 80Hv with 10s Voltz 4000mah plenty of power.

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