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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsAlign 3G › My latest 3G setup for T550E, T600, etc
04-21-2011 05:47 PM  7 years agoPost 1
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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Hey all.
This is a follow up to the initial round of programming changes that were recommended to the 3G. I wanted my T600N to feel a lot more like my Total G equipped 700E and 700N. The gain settings got us much more locked in, but tweaking Bell and Hiller to make it roll/flip fast, but act less skittish in Tic Toc's was the key.

I posted this to a fellow RR member asking for help, and copying here. This assumes a 550-700 size bird that wants 12-14 degrees cyclic in DIR setup

==============================================================
DIR setup, make sure your cyclic pitch is in middle of recommended range (13 degrees).

Aileron Page
Aileron Lock gain = 40
Aileron Total Gain Compensate = 88

Elevator Page
Elevator Lock gain = 40
Elevator Total Gain Compensate = 88

Tail page
Tail lock gain = 50
(set TX gain at about 75%)

Miscellaneous Page
Bell = 55
Hiller = 55
Swash Return = 70

Send whole config to 3G using "write settings"

Then go to 3G Display page

Adjust elevator and aileron gain dials till you get about 90% gain displayed for each if you are running FBL blades. For standard blades, look for about 80%

Once all that is locked in, I go to the "Command" page and look for 260 degrees per second of pitch and roll at full cyclic stick input. You can tweak the elevator and aileron control rates (on A and E pages) a bit (and re-write settings) if you are too far off, or adjust your swash percentages on transmitter. Doing on A/E pages is a bit more complex, but makes it easier if you need to reset DIR later.

=================================================================

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-23-2011 02:26 AM  7 years agoPost 2
flyride

rrKey Veteran

Salt Lake City UT

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I just set my 500 up with these settings and it did make an improvment over what I had (felt more locked in) but I did get a more noticable tail wag (need to mess with gain) and when I climb out hard and do flips it tends to start to roll to one side, what would you suggest on that?

and the blonde said "RECTUM, Hell damn near killed em!!"

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04-23-2011 04:32 AM  7 years agoPost 3
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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The tail gain setting is likely as high as you can go. You will need to lower TX gain a bit.

Rolling off to one side could be vibration. What is your mounting setup?

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-23-2011 04:49 AM  7 years agoPost 4
flyride

rrKey Veteran

Salt Lake City UT

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I have it mounted under the servo tray( aluminum) in the back upside down with just one foam pad that came with the 3G unit.

and the blonde said "RECTUM, Hell damn near killed em!!"

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04-23-2011 04:53 AM  7 years agoPost 5
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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Do you mean the receiver tray?
I would verify swash level and try strapping down the sensor.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-23-2011 04:58 AM  7 years agoPost 6
flyride

rrKey Veteran

Salt Lake City UT

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Sorry, ya I meant receiver tray. I will have to go through and double check the swash I guess and strap the sensor. If I can get it sorted I think this thing will rock, well as good as the 3G can.

and the blonde said "RECTUM, Hell damn near killed em!!"

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04-23-2011 02:33 PM  7 years agoPost 7
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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I looked at the aluminum receiver mount, but worried it would hum like a tuning fork with the cantilever section.
I put my 3G up on tail transmission section

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-23-2011 04:53 PM  7 years agoPost 8
flyride

rrKey Veteran

Salt Lake City UT

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On the top where we usually mount the gyro? What is your mounting pad config. like?

and the blonde said "RECTUM, Hell damn near killed em!!"

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04-23-2011 06:05 PM  7 years agoPost 9
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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I use the large Spartan plate with Spartan thick tape under plate and spartan thin on top.

http://www.helidirect.com/spartan-v...late-p-7735.hdx

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-24-2011 08:46 AM  7 years agoPost 10
Wingspinner99

rrNovice

Dallas, tx

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I'm not a fan of strapping down the sensor. By doing this you defeat the value of the foam and metal plates. If you've got the latest firmware and have the silicon rubber mod in the sensor then the next step is to increase the sensor mass. The 3G uses the same gyro technology as the black VBar so you know it's good. It's just that the sensor mass is only about 8 grams which, no matter what foam tape you use is going to make it susceptible to higher frequent vibrations. The secret here is to simply increase the sensor mass with mounting plates. I've had what I feel to be outstanding results by gluing 3 of the Align metal plates together and the attaching that to the sensor with very thin and hard mounting tape like 3M 1011 (the gray stuff). Then attaché the whole thing to your ship with one Align gyro mounting pad. I used this on 3 ships and more than a few others have as well. Makes a big difference.

The most important thing though is choice of mounting locations. I've not seen a "fit between the frames" gyro shelf on an Align yet that isn't a horrible tuning fork. Best place is on the frame base up under the mainshaft. Second best is on a tray immediately behind the anti-rotation guide as long as it's absolutely solid.

I've really grown to like the 3G ( just bought another one!) and it can work really well if it's mounted right and the mechanics are setup properly before you do the 3G setup.

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04-24-2011 01:23 PM  7 years agoPost 11
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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The issue with not strapping down is if the sensor can actually shake or move under hard acceleration or deceleration. You can actually get some very funky stuff happening in tic tocs with an unstrapped sensor and too "wiggly" mounting. I have found the tape that came with the old Futaba GY611 works well with no strap. The Spartan thick tape is decent. Stuff like Zeal allows too much sensor wiggle without a strap.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-24-2011 04:23 PM  7 years agoPost 12
Wingspinner99

rrNovice

Dallas, tx

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If it wiggled around too much without a strap then the mounting tape is too soft and/or tall. Go to a stiffer tape then. The 3G sensor is so light it is far less susceptible to wiggling around. Stiffer tape is the answer not a strap the strap is just compensating for too cushy tape.

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04-25-2011 07:49 AM  7 years agoPost 13
nickmcdonald

rrNovice

new lenox, il

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Jim, thanks for getting some solid settings out there for us E guys. I've had a good years worth of experience setting the 3G up on my nitro, and I feel I've gotten it as good as can be with stock equipment (blades included). However getting the 700E setup correctly was something that I've fought with because I was trying to run the same settings on both machines.

After thinking about it today, I remembered the 700E has different servo geometry and therefore would require higher gains to achieve the same locked in feel. I was flying at 55 gain on aileron and elevator, now I'm up to 75 and it's much better. Only problem is I now have the same high speed pitchiness issue the my 700N suffers from. This seems to stem from running higher gains, as I did not have this issue on my 700N prior to the sensor mod and higher gains or the 700E at 55.

My question comes down to your Bell/Hiller settings. I have mine set at 45 Hiller and 70 Bell because I prefer the much more direct snappy response around center stick. I'm curious if you've tried settings this active and experienced the same pitchy very high speed flight.

Whenever we get another rain free day I plan to try your suggested Bell/Hiller settings personally. Just curious what your thoughts are.

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04-25-2011 11:40 AM  7 years agoPost 14
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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I ran stock on my 600N's for the first year with respect to Bell/Hiller. I did not like the super snappy center. It flew fine, but was massivly different in feel than my SK720 on the 550E or Total G on the 700N. I essentially had to fly tic tocs one way on the SK720/TotalG (lots of cyclic, less collective) than the 3G 600N (lots of collective, little cyclic). Both rolled and flipped at same speed, but the super twitchy feel was only there on the 3G.

I was pitchy in FFF with the 3G, but that went away when I went to FBL blades. The B/H changes only changed the twitchy feel.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-25-2011 04:22 PM  7 years agoPost 15
nickmcdonald

rrNovice

new lenox, il

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Thanks for the reply Jim, my thoughts were along the same lines. Just haven't had the need to change the blades yet. I know what you mean about the snappy center stick though. Definitely not for everyone. Coming from a Kasama head on active settings though, 45/70 feels much more at home to me.

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04-26-2011 02:06 AM  7 years agoPost 16
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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Nick,
yeah if you liked the super aggressive settings on the Kasama, I see where you are coming from. I like pretty fast flip and roll rates, but want a bit more stick deflection to get it. If I tone down with expo I get too much of a knee. Tic tocs are fun with the twitchy setup, but harder for me to do nice slow piro flips, as it is hard to get the fine control I want.
The Total G and SK720 offer a more linear acceleration to full flip and roll speed on default settings. I could have tuned in a lot more bell on TG or SK720 to match the 3G, but that did not suit my flying style.

Everyone likes something different and that is cool. What made me happy was figuring out how adjustable the 3G is. I think a lot of people just install it, and it does not fly like something else they have flown and they toss it. So unless you flew a completely maxed out Kasama (I have ) then the stock settings for the 3G might feel a bit odd.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-26-2011 02:12 AM  7 years agoPost 17
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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Download and fly the TREX700 3G on Phoenix. Ratchet cyclic control to 120%. That will give you about what my 3G settings provide. The Phoenix model has a much smoother Bell control that the actual stock tuned 3G.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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07-27-2011 07:31 AM  6 years agoPost 18
cullen colapietro

rrNovice

Perrysburg, Ohio U.S.

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Subscribed

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07-27-2011 03:55 PM  6 years agoPost 19
love for scale

rrVeteran

Omaha, Nebraska U.S.A.

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I prefer to fly with hover pitch at mid stick, 9-10 at high, and -3 at low, as I do not do 3D. Can I doo this with the 3G? A little off topic I know, but seems like you guys know your stuff

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07-27-2011 04:26 PM  6 years agoPost 20
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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yes.
You need to be at zero pitch when you do setup. Once that is done, your pitch curve is up to you.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsAlign 3G › My latest 3G setup for T550E, T600, etc
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