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HomeScaleAircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › 5 blade head on a 450 T-Rex help
04-19-2011 05:37 PM  7 years agoPost 1
pcinc

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Westfield, MA

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I'm trying to set up a 450 T-Rex with a 5 bladed head and have a few questions for the more experienced here.

How doo I know or check if the phasing is correct on the head? How do I check the pitch of the blades with out a flybar to reference?
What kind of head speed should I be running this at?
What's the trick to tracking the blades?

It's a lightning head with FG blades 320mm on a T-Rex with a CCPM set up.
Any tips and advice are welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Peter

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04-19-2011 10:44 PM  7 years agoPost 2
clive45

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NSW Australia

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My first suggestion would be to use the search function on this and other forums as there is a wealth of information out there.............
How to setup heads, blades to use, tail holding problems.
Everything you need to know is already out there for you.
Enjoy the research

If it cannot fly on it's own, then I won't be much help....

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04-19-2011 11:07 PM  7 years agoPost 3
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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My first suggestion would be to use the search function on this and other forums as there is a wealth of information out there.............
How to setup heads, blades to use, tail holding problems.
Everything you need to know is already out there for you.
Enjoy the research

If it cannot fly on it's own, then I won't be much help....
Nice tip !.

info you will need to find:

The 450 with five blades rotor had a few issues, first is not the same result test without the fuselage, the HS is diferent because the extra weight of the body, is here where lot of guys had problems.
I mounted a few 450's with five and four blades rotorheads, you need to consider this:

1) avoid to use larger blades, my recommendation are the Heli Artist scale carbon blades, this ones have a narrow chord, less drag and weight.
2)...relative to the drag is the tail authority, again is lot different when the mechanics is inside the fuselage, usually need a high HS to have a minimun of tail control, try larger TAIL blades to improve control.
4) the motor and speed need to be good ones, the drag of the five blades and the weight of the fuselage can be to much for certain motors and speeds control.
I like and use the Align 35 Amper Speed and like the Turnigy 430XL and the Align 430XL motors, with this ones I can fly up to 6 minutes ( not bad at all for a heli weight of 1,4 kgm. And five blades head)
5) there is a few topics here in runryder and a good one in HELIFREAK started by BlackTitanium about this problems.

Manuel

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04-20-2011 04:25 AM  7 years agoPost 4
Christopher J

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Kansas City, MO Californian lost in land of Oz

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To check your phasing put one blade over the tail boom and give elevator inputs for and aft. If your phasing is correct the blade wont move.

Christopher J
same as I ever was
"Still all set & Flying the original"

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04-20-2011 04:44 AM  7 years agoPost 5
pcinc

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Westfield, MA

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Krumrick2,Christopher J, thanks for the suggestions.

clive45, I have used the search function. Thank You very much!

I have the phasing figured out and set up. I see I have a bit of play in the swash not between the inner and outer but between the inner and the shaft. It has a plastic or humw bushing between the inner bearing and the main shaft and that's where the play is. I checked the pitch by sighting the top of my pitch gauge against the top of the 2 blades across from the one I'm checking.It's probably not the best way but it will give me an idea of where I'm at and if I do all the blades the same it will at least be consistent blade to blade.I also found the tail belt to be a bit on the loose side which would explain he tail jumping around and being inconsistent.I'm ready to give her another hop but it's raining pretty steady here in NE. It looks like Friday will be the next clear day so I'll give it a go then and keep you all updated.

Thanks all,
Peter

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04-20-2011 05:09 AM  7 years agoPost 6
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Phasing Info
Hello Peter,

http://scalehelicopters.org/

Check out Peter Wales homepage and scroll down to the multi blade head link.... he has an excellent write up on how to set up and confirm your phasing.... I use this on each of my multi's...
Also having you model a bit nose heavy will not hurt with a multi...
Manuel also gave you some very good info... I ended up building a 4 bladed tail rotor on my rex ec 135 with a 4 blade head.. but I was using stock Align blades and his recommendation of the newer, now available, narrow cord blades will also help you out....
Do you plan on using a stabi system??? If so it would be best to use one that you can phase the head with... some radios are capable of this also...
Hope this helps a bit with your project..... and post some pics.... let me know if I can be of any further help anytime....

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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04-20-2011 06:46 AM  7 years agoPost 7
pcinc

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Westfield, MA

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Stan,
I did check out Peter's page. Great info. I would like to meet him someday! He is truly one of the great scale guys. I see a trip to IRCHA an Dalton in the future for sure. I got the phasing down pretty good. I did it old school way by watching the blades as I turned the rotor by the tail and watched the pitch(transmitter battery on charger while checking this out).

Good tip on the nose heavy. I'll be sure to do that. Thanks!
I did follow a lot of Manny's recommendations. I don't have the narrow chord blades. Do you or anybody have a source for them?
I wasn't planning on using a stabi system. I've read a lot where guys do good with out them on the 450's so I thought I would give it a shot. I'm still running the 9303 so I should be OK with that. I have a 500 in the Brieling paint scheme that's waiting for this mechanics set and also have a 4 blade head and a a 135 with another 450 for it.
As soon as I get this in the air, I'll get some pic's up. I'll be working on the 135 next!
You coming back this way any time this year? WE will have to hook up if you are!

Peter

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04-20-2011 12:39 PM  7 years agoPost 8
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Scale Blade Link....
http://www.scaleflying.com/Symmetri...-5-_p_1072.html

I would suggest that you "learn" to fly this new set up pod and boom first... especially since you will not be flying a stabi system... I do have both and although it will fly without, if there is a little breeze, it will get tougher real quick...so, if you are looking to make it a fun machine that you can fly regularly, you may want to consider a stabi system.... BUT do fly it without first.... it is good to give it a try and actually learn to fly it w/o!!!!
You can see my 135 with 4 blade head and tail in my gallery about 1/2 way down (yellow).... no stab system but quite a bit of nose weight.. the back of the skids lift about 1" before the front lifts off the table...
I just returned from a trip to visit my parents and did get to see some of the guys in NY and actually joined them for thier first day of OUTSIDE flying for the season....but will not be returning again too soon....
So, I guess we will just have to meet up at IRCHA AND DALTON!!!!!!! You will be glad you made both!!!!!!! Good Luck, Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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04-20-2011 01:07 PM  7 years agoPost 9
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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Hi Peter,

The scale blades from Helirtist make a big difference, you can find here: http://www.heliartist.com they are expensive but worth every cent, nice quality and scale look.

They have almost half the weight of the scale PLASTIC blades, and better..narrow chord makes a big difference, I have one EC135 and I tested both types of blades, the plastic blades give me only 50% of the flight time and the motor overheath badly.

can see that test in my topic " Fenestron don't hold...Now hold"
I have another video in a specif topic about the tail "MD500 Cascade tail rotor" in this last i'm using the Heliartist blades.

In other point Doorman is right, fly multiblades in windi days is a nightmare, indoor or calm days is aceptable.

Again...the most common issue is the TAIL AUTHORITY control with five blades head, please take in mind that IS NOT THE SAME test without the fuselage, or even with fuselage in hover, when you do a fast forward flight you can loose the tail control, so make lot of test before.

Manuel

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