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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters Docs  Hirobo Lama SA-315 Electric Conversion
06-15-2011 02:32 AM  7 years agoPost 41
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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Hi Mike,

I agree that installing larger than stock blades on the Lama is probably deviating from the scale relationship to the heli itself. Then again, I doubt when Hirobo did the original design, they pictured a craft weighing, as mine does, nearly 2 lbs. more than the original.

What we're looking at here is disk loading, which directly affects flyability. That being the case, in trying to preserve a stable aircraft, increasing the rotor disk size is almost a must. That is NOT to say it can't be flown with the stock blades, I just believe it wouldn't be much fun.

All that being said, yes the flybared head will be more stable. But, with proper blade sizing, some cyclic expo, and even better, 3 axis stabilization, you are very close to the 2 bladed head.

For me personally, after all the time and effort to make it appear as scale as possible, the 2 bladed head really just doesn't do it justice. My .02 worth

BTW, after all that, I'm running almost as much pitch as Hirobo recommends. 13 deg. max I think. Of course this varies with headspeed and how that effects sensitivity to pitch changes. My motor is an 800 kv and my average headspeed is 1600-1650 (non governed)

Jack

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06-15-2011 03:04 AM  7 years agoPost 42
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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hmmmm
Jack, you are correct. I think the perfect size would be a 530 or 500 mm blade. I wish iI could get a set of Robbe rotor sport 530 that I have on my Logo 500. These blades are truely just amazing. Manufactured in germany they are not available here in the US. Fully smytrical with reflex never seen anything like them. Anyways my Lama weighs in at 10 lbs flys well on 6s with the scorpion motor. However until i put a stabilization system on it might not see air time as it sure looked like a handfull when Chuck flew it with the stock woddies on the 3 blade head with no stabilization system.

Mike

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06-15-2011 03:24 AM  7 years agoPost 43
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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You could try the increased blade size and the expo, I'm running 30% on the cyclics, wait for perfectly calm conditions and I'd be willing to bet you'd see a world of difference. Obviously, that's your call according to your comfort level.

To be honest, I never tried mine after the conversion without the 3G stabilization so I really can't tell the difference it makes. My thinking, from what I've experienced, is that when the wind picks up, it really comes into play. I know others are flying without it, but probably more have it (microbeast, V-Bar, whatever) than not.

I've found it difficult to find anymore 530mm blades that I liked since Heli-Max quit selling theirs. If I had to replace mine right now, I'd probably go with the Align 550s that I'm running on my Shuttle. These were balanced right out of the box and positively sing in the air, Sweet!

Jack

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06-15-2011 04:19 AM  7 years agoPost 44
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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good deal
Thanks Jack for the inpit. Will try your suggestions. I tell you, what I want to ahieve is flying like a standard 2 blade/flybar system but in a 3 blade scale configuration. So Jack, do you think that is possible?

Mike

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06-15-2011 12:16 PM  7 years agoPost 45
FloridaHeli

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jacksonville, florida

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Mike,

That is exactly what I'm doing with the OEM 3 blade and MicroBeast. I DID fly once without electronic stabilization and have flown with 550 symmetrical CF blades with a Flybar. The 3 blade set up is a bit erratic in the wind. It felt like the swash was not level and cocked to the side. After Chuck Nowell told me about the effects of wind on a multiple blade set up I added the Microbeast and never looked back.

I do want to try some 550 mm blades on the 3 blade head and especially a set of FBL blades. Edge makes 473mm, 523mm, 553mm and 603mm FBL blades according to their web site. I wonder how the 523mm would work?

This hobby is WAY too expensive!!

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06-15-2011 06:04 PM  7 years agoPost 46
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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Mike,

I agree with FloridaHeli, if you do the bigger blades, expo, and 3 axis stabilization set up properly, the difference between that and a flybar setup should be absolutely minimal.

As far as blades, I'm running 530s. The 523s would be the absolute minimum on the small end and the 553s the max. on the top end.

Jack

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06-15-2011 06:23 PM  7 years agoPost 47
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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Mike,

P.S. Go to my youtube Channel "heliflyer7" and see it in flight and a look at how it's constructed.

Jack

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06-15-2011 06:31 PM  7 years agoPost 48
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Thanks guys
My bird will be grounded untill the proper conversion with electronics are installed.....guess i could limit to hovering about....but what is the fun in that....Lol. But thanks guys for the input. Just so you know these kits are produced in Japan and still are just need to special order them. As per conversation with MRC. Parts shouldnt be a problem. One last note. Went t a great heli fun fly, I was the only pilot with a scale Lama. These are rare birds we fly.....but oh what fun

Mike

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06-16-2011 02:19 AM  7 years agoPost 49
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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Just finished a flight with the Lama. It was overcast, the sun was setting, I switched the lights on during spool-up, hovered, and did slow forward flight around the backyard. Took it up about 50 ft. and let it just hang there, simply magnificent. It is so great without the glow motor to be able to hear the mechanics and blades actually working. I will NEVER go back to glow helis. The Lama just has so much presence in the air, heck, I'll go as far to say, more presence in the air, than any other ".30 sized" machine out there.

Mike, have no doubt that your machine will be more stable when set up properly with the 3 blade head than with the flybar. Mine most certainly is. It literally is motionless in the hover, but will move out with a nudge on the sticks.

As a note, with the Rimfire .46 800kv motor and 2 X 6s 3600mah packs my average Flight current was 32.6 amps, 759 watts, with the controller running at 91.8%, perfect. I extrapolate a full flight to be just over 10 mins. using the 80% rule, plenty for me.

It was a five month project, but worth every minute when it's in the air.

Jack

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06-16-2011 06:24 PM  7 years agoPost 50
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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????
Jack, If you read my post at the begining I used or should I say tried to use that very same motor. The result, was a test hover for about a minute then smoke then a burnt motor. So I dont know how you are flying with that motor. I am now using the scorpion motor. With better results. I am amazed it has lasted as long as it has....I wonder if mine was defective....

Mike

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06-16-2011 10:58 PM  7 years agoPost 51
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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Hi Mike,

I did see that in your post and have also heard others say the Rimfire motors were not up to their stated ratings.

I've got 34 mins 30 secs of flight time, not counting runups on the ground etc. It does get hot, actually hotter than I'd like, but up to this point, it's never faltered once.

That being taken into consideration, I am looking for a replacement as I am not entirely comfortable with the situation as it stands.

Do you know how much current you were drawing? As I said I'm drawing 32 amps with 6s packs, while my Shuttle draws 21 amps with the Hacker C50-19XL. However, the Lama weighs 2 lbs more and is pulling a 3rd blade, so maybe that's reasonable.

What model Scorpion are you using? They would be my first choice to replace this one with.

Jack

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06-17-2011 12:31 AM  7 years agoPost 52
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Motor.....
Jack, well like I said mine lasted into the 3rd or 4th minutes, then smoke and it cooked. I bought the motor because it clearly states it replaces a .46 glow engine. I thought it wouldnt be a problem, maybe I got a bad motor which is entirely possible..... And that was running it in the 2 blade configuration. GO FIGURE

I replaced it with the Scorpion HK-4025, 890kv. I am running this set up with 5000 mah 6S and a Castle creations 100amp Ice speed controll. Now in the 2 blade configuration which I loved to fly we flew it for 8 minuted and only took out 70% of the capacity of the battery. We could fly another 3 or 4 more minutes and be right at 80%.

I dont know the amp draw but I can tell you this, with the 2 blade configuration at a throtle setting at 76% we got 1820 on head speed and after the 8 minute flight motor temp was 102 speed control was at 91 and batteries were around 84. But I live in southeast Texas and it is hot and humid here like you wouldnt beleive. So outside air temp was about 90 degrees. So speed control and battery temps should be good.

I dont know what its like running on 3 blades will have to go for a test hover and let you know.

Motors, tell the truth the Scorpion seems like a good motor. But the European or German motors are great, you certainly get what you pay for. The Chineese stuff whilegetting much better still not up to par with the German motors. I got the Scorpion because it was economical at 135.00 bucks.

Mike

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06-17-2011 12:58 AM  7 years agoPost 53
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Nice Shuttle
Hey Jack looked at pictures in your gallery and you have the same Shuttle I once had. Boy they are sure nice flying helis, I have no idea why Hirobo quit making that heli....... I flew the original green canopy Shuttle with the start belt on the side in 1987 and my last Shuttle was the ZXX model.. sure brings back memories.....

Mike

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06-17-2011 01:13 AM  7 years agoPost 54
payne1967

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uk

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hirobo still make the shuttle
its now the shuttle plus 2
i doubt if many shops state side keep them in stock
blame align for that one

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06-17-2011 02:38 AM  7 years agoPost 55
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Thanks guys
Thanks Payne1967 You are probably right. Tell the truth I would take Hirobo over Align any day......
Mike

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06-17-2011 02:42 AM  7 years agoPost 56
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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Hey Mike & Payne,

Yeah, Alignitis has definitely hurt everyone else, no doubt!

The Shuttle with the Hacker is a very sweet conversion, talk about a cool running motor. My original Shuttle was a belt start blue canopy. It was my first heli and after about a year, I crashed it beyond recognition. I bought this Shuttle Z in '97 and have been modifying it in one way or another ever since. I believe the way it sits right now will be it's final iteration

The Hacker C50 is originally what I wanted to use in the Lama, would have been a perfect power source, I just couldn't come up with a mount configuration I was happy with. Another poster, can't recall his handle did the Lama with this motor using two original Hirobo mounts clamped together. Apparently worked great, but just wasn't to my liking.

I agree, your Rimfire had to have had a defect to go that quickly, as you said, particularly, with the 2 blade head, it couldn't have been drawing that much current. I'm flying mine very gingerly for now 'till I can replace it. BTW my controller temp after 5 min. of hovering and some FF was 143 def F with an ambient near 85 F. Bear in mind, however, that mine is inside the right hand cover, no air flow to speak of, within 3-4" of the motor, so that is to be expected. I put it there for strictly appearances, or the lack thereof. I know the temps will go down with a cooler running motor.

Sounds like a great setup on yours, the temps are super. By the time you add the 3rd blade, your headspeed should drop down to right where it should for that configuration. I just did a rough calculation on the numbers you gave, looks like you're pulling 26.25 amps with the two blade head. That leads me to think you'll be just at or slightly north of 30 amps with the 3 blade head, pretty much where I am. Good stuff!

You do know that you can measure all of your speed control parameters with the Castle Link Quick Connect. I use mine after every flight, the info is fascinating and very informative at the same time. You should have gotten an offer with your esc from Castle for a free one.

Jack

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06-17-2011 02:44 AM  7 years agoPost 57
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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Mike

Can you post photos of your setup? Particularly the motor mount area.

Thanks

Jack

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06-17-2011 02:51 AM  7 years agoPost 58
heliflyer7

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North Carolina

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That was "BellBloke" who did the Hacker with the two Hirobo mounts, check out his Lama, very realistic!

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06-17-2011 04:25 AM  7 years agoPost 59
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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hmm
Jack my friend, all my electronics including servos are not visible everyting is hidden by a black curved cover that goes over the entire electronic pod . I would have to send pictures to you. You can PM me your cell and I would be happy to send all my pics I have of my Lams or Jack if you tell me step by step I will post them on this topic about the Lama. Please bare in mind all my pictures are on my phone. I dont know how to transfer the pics from my phone to my lap top. Geez and to think I use a computer each day for work......dont I feel like a dumb a$$. Heck my phone has a 1 ghz processor and is way smarter than I. Well having lived all over Europe I can say that I wish we could get everything that is available there. Boy most of the rc stuff there is first rate.

Jack, I have a Multiplex Ash-26 5 meter motor Sailplane that is just awesome. This bird fly so close to the real plane its scary fun. At about 17 feet in wins span she is unbelievable thermal hunter. Then my two edf jets are fun too. I fly anything and love anything that flys, to me its all fun. Heck boys I even have a SeaWolf class rc scale submarine. But helicopters have been a source of joy and fun but also rather expensive when you fly it like a US smart bomb.....lol

Mike

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06-17-2011 11:42 AM  7 years agoPost 60
FloridaHeli

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jacksonville, florida

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Mike,

Would be great to get those photos and details of the electronics cover.

Did I tell you? I've ordered a 3 blade head for the tail. I'll post photos and a video when It get it in the air.

I'm working on the Airwolf that Chuck converted. The other Lama is on hold; no engine yet.

This sure is a great thread.

Thanks to all for the contributions.

This hobby is WAY too expensive!!

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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters Docs  Hirobo Lama SA-315 Electric Conversion
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