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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsFutaba CGY › Tips for setup up cgy 750
04-19-2011 01:50 PM  7 years agoPost 21
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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When I did my trim flights instead of adjusting the transmitter trim I adjusted the linkage up to the swashplate. I think that’s a much better method as it keeps all the servo arm angles at 90 degrees at 0 pitch. If you adjust the transmitter trim the angles will be off a little and this will cause control interaction. It takes more time but the results are much better.

... BTS

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04-19-2011 02:08 PM  7 years agoPost 22
Mercuriell

rrApprentice

Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

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That's weird John, I have equal pitch ranges on my ECO. There is a swash expert menu where you teach the gyro where your center, min and max pitch is. It's like calibrating your pitch range in the 750.
Have you tried that? Maybe the center pitch in your radio is not center pitch in the 750 which could explain it
Yes I've played with those seting - I think they just tell the 750 what the stick outputs are in case the Tx calibration is off - they do not seem to regulate the endpoints of swash travel.

John

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04-19-2011 03:39 PM  7 years agoPost 23
knightofcarnage

rrElite Veteran

chicago

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Mercuriell, did you turn off your Hi/Low pitch stuff in the radio. Your side sliders will effect your max pitch.

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04-29-2011 05:49 AM  7 years agoPost 24
knightofcarnage

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chicago

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you can try calibrate your stick on the radio

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04-29-2011 11:00 AM  7 years agoPost 25
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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you can try calibrate your stick on the radio

... BTS

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04-29-2011 03:25 PM  7 years agoPost 26
joe1l

rrNovice

long valley, NJ

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I have setup both my models so that i have zero trim on the TX and it hovers level and stable in trim flight. I did though make a little mistake on my X5 that people should watch for that did cause it to pull in on direction during quick climbs and descends .

I always use a micrometer to measure out my links for my swash to get them all identical. Then i level the swash using the fbl system servo adjustment along with a swash leveler. This has always yielded great results on all my FBL systems and if done right your trim flight should require almost no changes. I didnt realize however that when i leveled my swash on my 750 that i had one servo to swash link on my X5 that was a 1/2 turn shorter on the pitch servo. Anyhow it hovered perfect and stable, but as it would climb or descend it would pull sliglty to one side.. the 750 masked the issue most of the time because it would constantly correct for it but i would see it on occasion if i descended quickly while keeping the heli flat. Finally i went back and re-checked my linkages and found that the pitch side was .30 mm shorter (1/2 turn) than the others which would cause the swash to raise/lower un-evenly during flight. I think part of the reason i missed it was because when i checked it at mid low and high the AVCS was on.

After resetting the link and resetting the servo neutral point it was perfect! Anyhow for anyone doing a setup with the 750 i would make sure you pay special attention to this and check to see that your swash stays level at low mid and high... with AVCS off or it will just level itself out.

Fusion 50 CGY750 YGE90HV
Outrage 550 BeastX Jive100
Gaui X5 Vbar 5.1
Gaui X5 CGY750

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04-29-2011 09:42 PM  7 years agoPost 27
Individual1

rrApprentice

Florida

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Trim Flight
Bert and Bobby adjust the linkages as well. They like this better than toggling the switch 3 times and then making the mechanical adjustments. Go half turn at a time for respective Ail/Ele link based on the drift, then fly until it holds. Then go into AVCS.

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04-30-2011 02:55 AM  7 years agoPost 28
joe1l

rrNovice

long valley, NJ

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Swash Expert Pitch/Elev/Ail Calibration is a MUST!!!
I have been playing with the Ail/Ele expert menus and have been having alot of good luck making little tweaks to things like control feel etc to give me an even better flying heli. I was using the swash setting table in the very back of CGY750 instruction manual(pg118 -120) as a reference guide when I realized that on the very next page (p121) were instructions how to calibrate pitch, ail and elevator movement. Since the wind was blowing quite hard and the wife wasnt home from work i figured i'd give it a try. I had remembered seeing a post with some videos from Heliguychris that went over some of this but since i didnt notice any issues during flight i didnt think it was necessary to do. i gave it a try and it turned out i had some minor interaction. The directions in the book probably would of lead me to make no changes had i not seen Heliguychris's video first and knew how to spot the interaction. Anyhow i made the changes and the end result was fantastic. The heli feels much more precise. I think this is the step that is needed if you want to remove some of the negative flybar tendencies that many of the long term vbar and other FBL users have pointed out as being something they didnt like about the 750. One thing I had felt that my X5 vbar had over my CGY750 X5 was how precise it felt and how it felt more point and shoot. Now my CGY750 feels just as precise. I cant understand why the directions dont highlight this better but really for anyone setting up their 750, i suggest taking the time and doing this. It took me 15min at most. If you havent watched the video be sure to watch it first then follow the direction as it will make much more sense.

Watch at YouTube

Fusion 50 CGY750 YGE90HV
Outrage 550 BeastX Jive100
Gaui X5 Vbar 5.1
Gaui X5 CGY750

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04-30-2011 04:44 AM  7 years agoPost 29
knightofcarnage

rrElite Veteran

chicago

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++1

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04-30-2011 10:56 AM  7 years agoPost 30
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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Trim Flight

Bert and Bobby adjust the linkages as well. They like this better than toggling the switch 3 times and then making the mechanical adjustments. Go half turn at a time for respective Ail/Ele link based on the drift, then fly until it holds. Then go into AVCS.
That’s the way I did it. It keeps the servos at 90 degrees and you have a much more linear setup. They should have put that in the manual as it results in a much better setup.

... BTS

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04-30-2011 01:30 PM  7 years agoPost 31
Kevin Dalrymple

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis

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That is the way the Total G has you level the awash when doing a trim flight.

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04-30-2011 01:43 PM  7 years agoPost 32
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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On the pitch axis, I never touch the trim on the transmitter, and I never touch a link on the model. I adjust the CG of the model unitl the pitch axis trim is spot on.

What you need to understand is that the roll trim you're mechanically putting in in hover is basically unneeded in FF due to the effects of leading/trailing blade. Indeed, some models need a bit of opposite roll trim to hold a dead straight line.

Be very cautious when you THINK you're only trimming the roll axis by adjusting the AIL and PIT rods. Especially with 2.3 and larger mm rods, rods length is RARELY identical as a baseline. Generally we can only get them as close as 1/8-1/4 turn. Closer than that requires turnbuckle rods. So when you think you're only taking 1/2 turn at a time on each time, the linearity of the rod adjustment which is mandatory to achieve trim only on the pitch axis is not assured. If you doubt this fact, put two rods on a link duplicator and match their respective lengths. Then lengthen or shorten each rod an even turn or two and recheck their length. It most likely won't be the same; you'll end of jockeying one rod to the other by 1/2 turn to get it back to being exact. If you can't achieve perfectly linearity when you take go and mess with the rods lengths on the roll axis, then by definition you're also skewing your PIT axis trim, because pure roll trim can only occur if both the AIL and PIT rods lengths are changed in exact proportion. It gets even worse when you try to mix pitch axis trim in here. What are you going to do, only adjust the ELE rod? OK, do that, but then you lift the swash on the swashplate because ELE commands should involve raising or lowering the swash with the ELE rods AND going the opposite direction with the PIT/AIL rods. Mess with the AIL/PIT rods, and you're back to risking your roll axis trim. With this fact in mind, it's easy to start chasing yourself a bit and end up with a model that is more or less in mechanical trim for HOVER but which now has a 1/2 degree or more of deviation off 0 degrees at half stick. It is for these reasons and knowing that ideal swash trim for aerobatics is really a dead level trim that I keep my have my trim separated in the transmitter. Hover trim is memorized into the CGY750 (again, no elevator trim; I do that with a CG shift). I then have the swash effectively retrimmed level for the aerobatics. You can do this because an AVCS gyro CAN be trimmed in HH in flight and without memorizing that trim. The only requirement is that the system be booted up each time with no trim in the transmitter which is what I do everytime since the trims are back to neutral in hover as a result of the hover trim being memorized. I've used this same technique for years and years with single axis t/r gyros to precisely trim the t/r in FFF for aeros (no, it's not always as perfect as you think it is even with the best HH gyros). The long and the short of it is neither of my models with the CGY750 has more than 4 or 5 point of right roll axis trim to achive hands off trim in hover. There is no other trim needed anywhere else nor in any other flight condition.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-04-2011 11:09 PM  7 years agoPost 33
ScotY

rrApprentice

USA

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Hi Dr. Ben,

Followed you all through the mechanical setup that you mentioned above but got lost when you started talking about trim in the radio, memorizing, etc. Can you elaborate a little, i.e. dummies version, please? How do you do the first trim flights, etc.? I'm using an 8FG if it matters.

Thanks, Scot

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05-05-2011 03:07 AM  7 years agoPost 34
ttrip06

rrApprentice

Central Pa

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I think what Dr.Ben is saying:

Is that he takes care of all the (ele)trim needs mechanically on the model by balancing first. Then instead of adjusting linkages or trimming the model in hover with tx trims. He will trim with tx trims (ail) during forward flight in the idle up conditions. So essentially the models boots up zeroed and does not see the tx trims in AVCS MODE till he changes into a idle up condition.

Tim

Tim Tripoli

Team Futaba, Rail Blades
Team Crash
ProggressiveRC

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05-05-2011 04:29 AM  7 years agoPost 35
joe1l

rrNovice

long valley, NJ

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I have another tip that i learned.

If you want to increase or decrease your AFR/ cyclic pitch after having done your setup, be sure to cycle through size & flight mode to ensure your roll rate get set properly. I had an issue when decreasing my cyclic, it had instead caused my cyclic to feel much faster even though i had lowered the AFR. After cycling through the size/flight modes the cyclic seemed to return back to the original rate and feel.

Fusion 50 CGY750 YGE90HV
Outrage 550 BeastX Jive100
Gaui X5 Vbar 5.1
Gaui X5 CGY750

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05-05-2011 02:11 PM  7 years agoPost 36
mlucia

rrKey Veteran

Essex Jct., Vermont

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Here is a tip.
Make sure your are using MLT2 for your frequence settings. If you don't the Ele and Ail gains will read 0. Post your tips here thank you.
Wish I would have seen this comment last night around midnight ;-)

I want to add that if you update the 8fg to v3 and see v1-aux1, v2-aux2 etc. In the function menu Instead of channels 9,10 etc for the gyros the frequency is set to multi instead of multi2.

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05-05-2011 05:41 PM  7 years agoPost 37
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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I think what Dr.Ben is saying:

Is that he takes care of all the (ele)trim needs mechanically on the model by balancing first. Then instead of adjusting linkages or trimming the model in hover with tx trims. He will trim with tx trims (ail) during forward flight in the idle up conditions. So essentially the models boots up zeroed and does not see the tx trims in AVCS MODE till he changes into a idle up condition.
That's pretty much the case. I arm the ESC in a base flight condition with no trim. I hover the model in another and trim the ail for what is needed. The ele trim is never touched; I do that with CG adjustments. The idle up trims are separate and return to zero because I want the swash completely level for aerobatics. If I trimmed the model in hover and memorized that setting into the controller, then I would actually have to add some trim in the idle up conditions to effectively remove the memorized trim for the aerobatics. The gist of the matter is that due to helicopter aerodynamics, no model will maintain the same AIL trim for hover as it will for FFF. Split trim allows for the best of both worlds. You can trim in AVCS all you want in a flight and not memorize the setting as long as you boot up the model in an independent flight condition which has the trim all at zero. The manual does not describe this method, but it has sound basis in fact and the way the GY series of heli gyros, ANY of them, treat trim in AVCS mode.

Ben Minor

PS: Sorry I missed your call last night Mark. I had my hands full with a project.

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-05-2011 07:26 PM  7 years agoPost 38
mlucia

rrKey Veteran

Essex Jct., Vermont

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No worries Ben and thanks. Figured it out!

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05-05-2011 11:45 PM  7 years agoPost 39
mcoccia

rrKey Veteran

Central Jersey

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Speed Compensation
Is the Speed compensation only adjusted at mid stick or can you do Hi,Low & Middle?

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05-06-2011 12:30 AM  7 years agoPost 40
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Unlike the other compensation mixers, this one is just set up around center stick.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsFutaba CGY › Tips for setup up cgy 750
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