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Electric Battery-Charger-pSupply
› Hyperion EOS 720i Super DUO3
01-16-2011 04:38 AM  7 years agoPost 61
3Dmuse

rrApprentice

Ontario, Canada

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Just curios, how much of a difference in minutes did you see between 4C and 6C?

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01-16-2011 04:48 AM  7 years agoPost 62
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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[quoteFrom 4C (aprox. 15min) to 6C (aprox. 10min) there isn't really any significant reduction in charge time.[/quote]

Isn't that a 30% reduction in charge time? 1/3 reduction?

Five minutes is a typical flight on many electrics, right? Saving five minutes on a charge cycle equals another flight in THAT 15 min window. Stick around for a couple of hours and it could translate into 4 or more flights. Mathematically speaking.

Respectfully,
Tyler

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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01-16-2011 05:08 AM  7 years agoPost 63
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Yeah, Tyler's right, if a person is flying back to back with two sets of batts(which I've done). I've charged in as little as 8+ mins using 95% charge rate as a method of getting around the extra time it takes to peak charge and peak balance the batts. 95% only leaves about 200ma to peak. A person can actually fly back to back all day with only two sets of high C rate (charge & discharge) batteries that are in good shape using this method if the batts don't come in too warm.

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01-16-2011 05:20 AM  7 years agoPost 64
TrevJonez

rrKey Veteran

St.George, Utah - USA

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just put my order in for 2 of these chargers and ordered 4 of these dell power supply's to setup as a 24v power supply inside of a case separated from user and each other with acrylic or polycarbonate(lexan) for safety purposes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

going to use this as my guide

https://sites.google.com/site/tjing...w-tos/server-ps

and this

https://sites.google.com/site/tjing...tos/diy-24v-47a

2000 watts of charging here i come. no i just have to hope the breaker at the school can handle it will have to run off separate legs at the house lol so much power!

Who cares... its just money...

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01-16-2011 05:25 AM  7 years agoPost 65
3Dmuse

rrApprentice

Ontario, Canada

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Isn't that a 30% reduction in charge time? 1/3 reduction?

Five minutes is a typical flight on many electrics, right? Saving five minutes on a charge cycle equals another flight in THAT 15 min window. Stick around for a couple of hours and it could translate into 4 or more flights. Mathematically speaking.

Respectfully,
Tyler
The reduction in charge time from 2C (30min) to 3C (20min) is 33.33%, the same as from 4C (15min) to 6C (10min). Yet the difference in minutes is 10min and, respectively, only 5min. Mathematically speaking. The same ratio of 33.33% goes for an improvement from 15 nanoseconds to 10 nanoseconds. Mathematically speaking as well My point was the higher the C number, the less improvement in charge time we see.

Not wishing to start a debate here. I can totally understand that all of us try to get as many flights as we can out of a trip to the field. The real issue is what's feasible in practice.

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01-16-2011 05:36 AM  7 years agoPost 66
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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glad we are all speaking the same language, mathematical.

Anyone care to hash out the practical speaking?

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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01-16-2011 05:57 AM  7 years agoPost 67
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Kiba, What made you decide to replace the iCharger 3010 with the new 720i Super DUO3?

  

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01-16-2011 06:06 AM  7 years agoPost 68
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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You can not simply divide 60 by 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 and get the charge times, it is more complicated than that. A lipo charge cycle is made up to two phases, the constant current phase and the constant voltage phase. Increasing the charge current positively effects the CC phase but negatively effects the CV phase. As such there are diminishing returns to higher C-rate charging.

Take an 80% depleted lipo. At 1C, it will take 80% of 1 hour to complete the CC phase. Next the CV phase starts, where 4.2V per cell is maintained and the current drops off as the pack approaches a full charge. This phase usually takes anywhere from 5-20min.

Now take the same lipo, depleted 80%, and charge it at 2C. The CC phase takes half the time as it would at 1C or 40% of an hour. Next the CV phase starts but unlike the 1C charge cycle, twice as much current needs to be dropped at the same rate as the 1C, taking twice as long. To combat this, new chargers are set to stop the charge cycle at a completion current proportional to the initial charge current. This completes the CV phase more quickly but leaves the lipo slightly less charged than at 1C. So 2C charging results in a charge time of approx. 80%/2 of an hour plus the CV phase, 5-20min.

3C thus takes 80%/3 of an hour plus the CV stage, 5-20min.

And so on.

That practical speaking enough?

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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01-16-2011 01:54 PM  7 years agoPost 69
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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That's the general idea, and it's also an area where chargers can stand apart from each other. Although many folks only seem to focus on features and specifications, a chargers charge algorithm can also have an affect on charge time. Some chargers also allow you to customize some of the parameters you mention in order to optimize charge time.

The quality of packs being used can also affect charge time. The less balancing required, the faster the CV phase. The more balancing current the balancer has the better it can handle cells out of balance. The more capacity an out of balance cell has the longer it will take to bring it into balance.

  

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01-16-2011 06:48 PM  7 years agoPost 70
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Yes, when batteries get old, or are damaged through over discharge(3.7V/cell minimum), or charging when too warm, they will loose their ability to be fast charged. So, everyone take care of your batteries!

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01-16-2011 07:10 PM  7 years agoPost 71
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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And, buy good batteries to begin with. Better quality packs made with matched cells will require less balancing resulting in faster charge times.

  

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01-16-2011 07:14 PM  7 years agoPost 72
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Yes, a VERY GOOD suggestion!
Besides you can't high C rate charge with too cheap of batteries...

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01-17-2011 03:29 AM  7 years agoPost 73
Kiba

rrApprentice

CA

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Kiba, What made you decide to replace the iCharger 3010 with the new 720i Super DUO3?
More charging flexibility. I'd rather have 2x 500 watt ports than 1x 1000 watt port. Also, the iCharger is limited to about 750 watts (30 amps) when charging 6 cell packs while the Hyperion will let me max out both ports at 500 watts on 6S-- that means I can use all 1000 watts of the capacity and turn multiple packs faster. I prefer to parallel charge all my packs at about 1.5C rather than charge them individually at a higher C rate as I find the cells stay in balance better.

I have 4 flight packs for my Logo 600SE. With the iCharger I would usually parallel charge 2 of my Logo 600 packs at 25 amps (1.5C) and then have to do another charge cycle for charge the remaining 2 packs. That normally takes about 30-35 minutes per charge cycle and about 70 minutes total for all the packs.

With the pair of Super Duos I can parallel charge 2 Logo packs per port at 20 amps / 500 watts and have all 4 Logo packs charged in 30-35 minutes and get to the field faster. Since I fly in a big alfalfa field about 1/4 mile away from the house I charge everything at home in one shot and then drive out to the field. Having 2 Super Duos will allow me to charge all 4 of my Logo 600 packs, all 6 of my Trex 500 packs, and all 6 of my 3D foamy packs simultaneously in about 30-35 minutes. When time is at a premium or when I fly after work in the winter and the sun goes down early being able to charge all my packs simultaneously means I can squeeze more flights in because of the time saved.

If I only had 2 or 3 flight packs for each heli and a generator and did all my charging at the field between flights I would probably have 2 iChargers or 1 iCharger and one Super Duo. But since I charge everything at home before heading out it's more important to me to get all the packs charged simultaneously and 2 Super Duos made the most sense IMO.

Another thing I've noticed... comparing my previous Duo 3 to the iCharger the Duo 3 was not only faster in the CV/balance final stage of the charge but it also kept the cells in better balance than the iCharger did. Not that the iCharger let things get way out of balance but the Duo 3 just kept the voltage difference tighter.

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01-17-2011 06:12 AM  7 years agoPost 74
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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I am confused by this statement.
parallel charge 2 of my Logo 600 packs at 25 amps (1.5C)
What packs are you running that charging 2 of them at 25A would be 1.5C?

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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01-17-2011 03:24 PM  7 years agoPost 75
Kiba

rrApprentice

CA

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I am confused by this statement.

parallel charge 2 of my Logo 600 packs at 25 amps (1.5C)

What packs are you running that charging 2 of them at 25A would be 1.5C?
12S 4000 packs. Each flight pack is 2x 6S 4000 packs in series so when charging 2 flight packs I'm charging 4X 6S 4000 packs in parallel at 25A. 1.5C would be 24A-- I charged them at 25A because 25A was right at the 600 watt limit of the Meanwell power supply I was using with my iCharger 3010.

With the Super Duo I'll be charging a pair of flight packs at 20A a piece or 1.25C; a little slower than the iCharger but I'll be able to charge 4 packs simultaneously (2 in parallel per charger channel) rather than two back to back charge cycles of 2 packs in parallel at a slightly higher C rate with the iCharger. Even though the Super Duo isn't as fast as the iCharger being able to charge all 4 packs simultaneously results in a net time savings.

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01-17-2011 03:39 PM  7 years agoPost 76
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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More charging flexibility. I'd rather have 2x 500 watt ports than 1x 1000 watt port.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question and for the insightful information you provided.

  

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01-21-2011 05:41 AM  7 years agoPost 77
TrevJonez

rrKey Veteran

St.George, Utah - USA

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my 2 chargers showed up today. but won't fit inside my case the way i wanted to do so what are you guys doing for a portable charger setup? any pictures? im trying to do a self contained case with power supply built in so all you do is plug in the whole case open the lid and charge away.

similar to what has been seen in the 24v safety thread on RCgroups.

i tried using the 25$ box from lowes i kept my other stuff in but its too small.

going to hit walmart/sportsmans/home depot and other hardware/sports stores until i can find a place that sells a good case for this!

Who cares... its just money...

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01-21-2011 02:19 PM  7 years agoPost 78
Oat

rrVeteran

CA

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Try Pelican case, the best.
http://www.pelican-case.com/
The cleanest setup I have ever seen. This is from OICU812.
https://rc.runryder.com/rr/rrpw.htm?p=5144952&i=1

Insane Canopy | Kasama | Kontronik | Jeti

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01-21-2011 03:44 PM  7 years agoPost 79
wargor

rrApprentice

Islands

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What do you guys think of the DLS-45 IOTA Engineering 45A 12VDC 600W Power Supply's. Would this unit be enough to charge 2 6's batteries up to 5C rate?

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01-21-2011 04:28 PM  7 years agoPost 80
cmir2425

rrApprentice

miami, fl usa

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No, It wont do it. You need at least 1300w to do that with this charger. You also would need at least 24v input Voltage.

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› Hyperion EOS 720i Super DUO3
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