RunRyder RC
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4     NEXT    >> ] 3925 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Flybarless without stablization unit
12-24-2010 02:32 AM  9 years ago
w8qz

rrVeteran

Grand Rapids, MI - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
No stabilization electronics / no flybar - back in the 70s!

Anybody on line who flew one of these?
"The helicopter is much easier to design than the aeroplane, but is worthless when done. W. Wright"
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-24-2010 02:48 AM  9 years ago
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I've never seen this one, but one of my buddies has an old GMP...
I think FBL Competitor. And I think he bought it new when they first came out.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-24-2010 02:59 AM  9 years ago
heli-cuzz

rrElite Veteran

Pittston, Pa. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
No stabilization electronics / no flybar - back in the 70s!

Anybody on line who flew one of these?
Back then I was flying a whirlybird that Santa had brought me for Christmas.
Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-25-2010 04:53 AM  9 years ago
devin_hor

rrNovice

sparta tn

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I just bought the fbl head conversion for my ely q v50c xe, and am still saving up for a beastx, so I figured I'd try it nobar today. Added 30% expo in idle up 1, 25% in normal mode. It was just as stable as it was flybarred in a hover, flips and rolls were faster. It wanted to roll a little in flips, and starting into forward flight it was pretty pitchy. This was with the same thunder tiger v2 carbons I was flying before. I'm going to try it with a set of fbl blades before I put the beastx on it.

It was definitely not a handful though, or anything near a crash, and I even ran out fuel and had to auto it from ten or fifteen feet.

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 04:55 PM  9 years ago
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
My apologies Ron, you're right. I mistook your signature with 3 V-Barred heli's as having a bias towards them.

Unfortunately these threads typically turn into a 2 sided thing. You have those that say it CAN'T be done, or it's DIFFICULT, or "theory" says...

Then you have those that ARE doing it, finding it NOT difficult, showing video that it CAN be done and it IS fun!!

Taking shots at those who ARE doing it only gets shots thrown back.

I agree a Turbine CAN be a daunting exercise electrically, CAN be complicated. And when there's an electrical failure, it's usually not much fun. But it very seldom results in a catastrophic crash. Usually the engine just quits, necessitating an autorotation. (which all Turbine Waiver holders have shown they can accomplish during their waiver signoff test)

How fun is it when there's an electrical failure with an electronic flybar? Can you then auto it down?

I guess I am an empirical kind of guy. Theory is good right up until actual experience disproves the theory. See my video for the actual experience. Better yet, try it yourself. Give it an HONEST truthful attempt using the recommendations from the people who ARE doing it.

Oh, and hope everyone had a MERRY CHRISTMAS!! We took a few days off to be with family and friends..
Chris D. Bergen
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:03 PM  9 years ago
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
This might be sort of fun. Challenging anyway.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:07 PM  9 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
It IS difficult, just like skate boarding. It can be done but it needs work. It's not at the same level as learning to ride a bike.

The physics explains why. The faster you go, the more forward cyclic you need. A flybar, mechanical or electronic, does that for you, just like a throttle mix takes care of power changes as collective is changed and just like a tail gyro takes care of yaw variations caused by power changes.

If you like to do things the hard way, knock your self out. Most people prefer to take advantage of available technology.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:24 PM  9 years ago
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Airwolf, so if you are doing mostly tight 3D, it would seem this ballooning effect would be minimal, and you'd get more ballooning effect when you do big 3D or FFF.

Right?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:30 PM  9 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Airwolf, so if you are doing mostly tight 3D, it would seem this ballooning effect would be minimal, and you'd get more ballooning effect when you do big 3D or FFF.

Right?
Correct.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:37 PM  9 years ago
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
It's NOT difficult!

The VERY first time I tried it I expected to crash. I even suggested that a video camera be setup to record the unfortunate event!

Boy was I surprised!!

I have let others fly MY personal helicopter, at IRCHA and other funflies that I attend. Most come away with the expression that it wasn't nearly as bad as they expected. The few who had the cojones to do aerobatics seemed pleased with the speed at which the heli did the manuevres, and this with a 13 Lb GASSER!!

I have flown helicopters that were "difficult" to fly. I sweated and fought and did my DAMNEDEST to keep those things flying and hated EVERY minute of it.

FBL NOE is NOT that!! I thoroughly enjoy flying the heli this way, it's more responsive, it's faster, it's a whole NEW level of flying.

Is it hands off? Certainly not! Do you fly ANY heli hands off? (excepting of course if you have a DJI autopilot on board)

Is it different? DEFINITELY! Noone is saying otherwise. Difficult? Not for anyone willing to give it an honest try. Take your Raptor experiment, put some proper FBL blades on it, then give it some time to get used to the feel. If you feel the need, add your favorite electronic unit onto it, then see if you can "feel" the gyros correcting your heli.

That was one of the things I didn't like when testing some FBL blades recently that were HORRIBLE. I installed the Skookum, but could see porpoising and could feel the corrections in the heli. I could feel the unit working and didn't really care for it myself, but that's just me..
Chris D. Bergen
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:43 PM  9 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
If you could explain WHY some blades show better than others
. . . then you would have something interesting to listen to.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:46 PM  9 years ago
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I bet the heaviness of the gasser helps stop that ballooning.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 05:51 PM  9 years ago
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Hmm. That WOULD be interesting, but as these blades were only given to me to test, I did not have the option of dissecting them.

I CAN say that installing a set of EDGE FBL blades completely eliminated the issues that I was seeing.

What is the difference? CG? fore and aft? spanwise? chord width? Tip type? Airfoil? MAC? Really couldn't say.

Hovering? On a calm day it simply sits there. With a wind, my heli's tend to move INTO the wind, simply requiring you to fly the heli and correct for the movement.
Chris D. Bergen
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 06:20 PM  9 years ago
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

MyPosts All Forum Topic
First they weigh more, more interia means more stable.

Also just like an airplane, a forward (chordwise) CG is more stable, an aft CG is less stable (but more aerobatic)
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 07:47 PM  9 years ago
payne1967

rrElite Veteran

uk

MyPosts All Forum Topic
i haven't read all of the posts but to answer the op
yes it is very possible
reduce the cyclic inputs use some expo (although i took it out of mine) with the fbl head and go and fly
i did it to a hirobo sceadu, a home converted fbl head std sab 600 blades and no electronics
i've even flown it in 30-35 mph gusts of wind (even a flybared model was horrible to fly in it)
i've since fitted electronics and yes it is nicer to fly
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 08:13 PM  9 years ago
RotorTech321

rrApprentice

Scranton, PA. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Let there be no mistake, It sure can be done with ease. I watch Cuzz fly all the time and he makes it look simple. Im sure that stab systems work just fine but so does cuzz when he is flying without one.
This is nothing new, I watched Robert Gorham was do this many years ago.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 08:18 PM  9 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I watch Cuzz fly all the time and he makes it look simple.
. . . and how long has Cuzz been doing this ?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 08:42 PM  9 years ago
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Cuzz has been doing it a long time
Chris,
I never said it was impossible or hard, just harder without a stabilization system. You have to experiment with different blades and blade weights to get the setup correct for that heli. For me I just push a slider up or down in the program.
There was a reason flybars were added, to get rid of bad tendencies FBL helis had inherently.
To the OP: like I said before, try it without the system and see how you like it. Later add a system and try again. If you don't like it, sell it
BTW I am biased towards VBARS but Chris you are just as biased towards NOT using one. I have tried it your way, try it mine and then you can have an accurate snapshot of what truly can be offered in each world.............Ron
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 08:45 PM  9 years ago
ady

rrKey Veteran

norfolk england

MyPosts All Forum Topic
i`ve found the rex 600 very delightful to fly with no electronics , feels better in the air than the rappy 50 with no electronics for some reason ?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-27-2010 08:49 PM  9 years ago
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
you guys should have a hands-on test at IRCHA or something.

if I were a marketing guy for a blade manufacturer I'd be testing this sort of stuff and market a "cheaper way to go flybarless".

granted, it's not a new idea, but it'd be new to someone who didn't know about it before or wasn't instilled with visions of Franz Kavan, the Gorhams and other early RC heli pioneers.
- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix
Lynx Heli Innovations
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4     NEXT    >> ] 3925 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Flybarless without stablization unit
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 15  Topic Subscribe

Friday, February 21 - 5:45 am - Copyright © 2000-2020 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online