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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Flybarless without stablization unit
12-22-2010 06:17 PM  9 years ago
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zoot408

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MI.

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Flybarless without stablization unit
I see that Chris BErgen has several successful videos on youtube, labeled flybarless without stablization. I assume this means bolt on your flybarless head and go to town. anyone tried this, and what machine and what head used?
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12-22-2010 06:32 PM  9 years ago
Chucky777

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Webster, Texas

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You are going to have to post a link. The only vedio I found was Chris Berman Flybarless with a Skookum 360.

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...lybarless+&aq=f

Charlie
Is it the weekend yet?
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12-22-2010 06:44 PM  9 years ago
Max Headspeed

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Sunny (!) Livingston, Scotland

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I found this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L045xZNuUM
Max Headspeed.
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12-22-2010 06:47 PM  9 years ago
zoot408

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12-22-2010 06:49 PM  9 years ago
zoot408

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12-22-2010 06:50 PM  9 years ago
darkfa8

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Brick, NJ - USA

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from what I understand:

1. remove flybar head/links
2. install flybarless head/links/swash driver
3. reduce overall pitch to ~20* and cyclic range to 6*
4. use heavier blades (F3C type or FBL specific blades)
5. adjust head speed to suit

Tweak pitch settings after test flight. Apparently there might also be phasing issues that show themselves during piro maneuvers among other types. I'm not sure how exactly to adjust the phasing or any other caveats, but I believe it involves doing some in-radio Program Mixing.

I've heard it's not quite like the electronic stabilization, but for $150-$400 less than, it's livable for most on a budget.
- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix
Lynx Heli Innovations
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12-22-2010 06:51 PM  9 years ago
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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One can learn to fly most anything but I assure you, flying flybarless without stabilization is NO FUN. Any kind of forward speed will make the heli pitch up.

Go here for some technicals; http://airwolfrc.com/NFB.html
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12-22-2010 07:54 PM  9 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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CoptorDoctor and HeliHeadCase both fly multi blade heads w/o stab systems and quite well.

Its a matter of setup and blade choice.

With a flybar or stab system is certainly easier though.
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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12-22-2010 08:46 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Where's Heli-cuzz?lol...

NOBAR
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-22-2010 09:00 PM  9 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Flybarless without stablization unit
Is been done for many years prior to the "new" stabilization units available today.

Can still be done and it can be fun, more so that flying without a tail gyro . (yeah, that is no fun, unless you are into relaxing with an angry squirel down your pants)

There is lots of information here in RR about flying FBL without electronics. The 1st step is to get very stable blades (like FAI blades which are even more stable than FBL 3d ones) and use low rates on the head.

Santiago
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12-22-2010 09:05 PM  9 years ago
Heliguychris

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Perth, West Australia

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Another nobar here. I use a t700 with a longranger scale body.

No really 3dable, due to the random effects of gyroscopic progression etc... but quite hoverable. Not exactly fun, but enormously satifying.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/...II/IMG_1860.jpg
http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/...IMG_1863-1.jpg#!oZZ40QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx161%2FEvil_Lord_X%2FHelis%2FPRCHC%2520Scale%2520Muster%2520Mk%2520II%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DIMG_1863.jpg

Cheers
Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au
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12-22-2010 09:09 PM  9 years ago
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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I can ASSURE you it IS fun to fly!

Is it for a beginner? No. Does it take getting used to? Yes. So does anything new that you are learning with a helicopter.

Does it require proper setup and Blades? Most definitely. Just as doing aerobatics requires proper setup, blades, HS, etc.

Will everyone like it? Nope. But if you do, you will appreciate the money savings, lack of electronic device malfunctions, and the fact that all your buddies will say "You can't do that!"
Chris D. Bergen
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12-22-2010 09:15 PM  9 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Chris,

Has Larry (Mr Bergen) ever done it?

Santiago
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12-22-2010 09:20 PM  9 years ago
EVO76

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New York , U.S.A.

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I was also thinking about Heli-cuzz when I read this. he has been flying a couple heli's w/o any form of stab..and they fly great!! I thought he was using edge FBL blades???
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12-22-2010 09:29 PM  9 years ago
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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Larry Bergen tested a 5 bladed head MANY years ago, it flew fine, as long as you understood it's characteristics.

I do not believe that he's flown my latest setup, but then again he hasn't flown much of anything for a few years....

EDGE Blades made a HUGE difference in how a FBL NOE setup flies and reacts, almost eliminating the pitch up tendency that AirWolfRC alluded to.

More videos will be posted soon as testing continues...
Chris D. Bergen
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12-22-2010 09:29 PM  9 years ago
rchelichop

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seeya

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I laugh when I hear money savings when talking about rc helis. In the end, you pay to play in this hobby, let it conquer your heart.
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12-22-2010 09:34 PM  9 years ago
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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True!! However in this case it refers to NOT spending money on a high $$$ electronic stabilization unit.

I also no longer have to replace the flybar when I crash...
Chris D. Bergen
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12-22-2010 09:41 PM  9 years ago
Charlie R

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Lafayette Ca

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💎Sustaining Member
Let see if you know...
Let see if you know...

which manufacture came up with the first flybar-less helicopter for the market....

Not including the home blew version... only manufacture.

There were a few manufactures attempt to have fly-bar-less rotor system in the 70s... but it was not a real standard equipment offering. Kind of as an option. Kavan has it for their Lockheed and Jet Ranger as they call it rigid rotor system. . American Helicopter has an option for their Revolution 60.. Graupner Bell 212 has an option to remove the flybar and it never did work right either and keep chopping the tail boom.

The real (IMHO) one that works is the one from Horizon Helicopter call the Horizon 60, it is early 80s. That machine has no tail rotor gear box... just a large bend of the speedo cable to drive the tail. Uses many airplane type parts. It flys.. is a hand full..

GMP comes much later, in the early 90s..
I recently came across a picture of the first demo . It was at Morgan Hill. Gorham came up with that machine. It was the first public viewing. :-o)

So, now you know...
Helicopters are a mass of rotating metal fatigue surrounding an oil leak !
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12-22-2010 10:11 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Cuzz flys 3D NOBAR though.I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-22-2010 10:17 PM  9 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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FBL is doable without a stabilization system but if you fly anything other than sport fly or scale, it can be a handful. You really have to experiment with what works best but if you install a stabilization system, you will see very soon that the two are worlds apart.
Chris Bergen has had some sucess with his helis as they are larger and heavier so wind and other factors will not influence the heli as much but try that with a 450-550mm bladed heli and you will not be happy.
If you are buling from scratch and fly Spektrum or JR, a VBAR will only cost you ~$50 more as you don't need a tail gyro ($125) or a rx ($125) and the cost of the VBAR is $299(Mini-V) for an electric and a $319 for a nitro (Full Size V).
I say try it both ways and find out what you like. If you find you don't like the FBL system, you can sell it at a small loss and be wiser about the whole experience.........Ron
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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