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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybarless question. What the heck happened?
12-21-2010 11:56 PM  9 years ago
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Brad_B

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Gonzales, LA

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Flybarless question. What the heck happened?
I have a 600N Pro flybarred which I am comfortable sport flying. I'm no 3D pro but loops, rolls, flips and stall turns don't make my knees shake any more. Well, a friend who has plank experience and is just getting into helis bought him a 600 flybarless setup that another friend set up and test flew. He brought it out to the field this weekend. He wanted me to fly it to see what I thought of the flybarless system. I told him I didn't really want to fly his because of cutbacks at work and I couldn't afford to fix anything I would break on his right now and I had never flown flybarless. He said don't worry about it and gave me the controls.

I spooled it up and let the headspeed get up. I then gave it a little more collective and it leaped about a couple of feet off the ground and tipped forward at about a 45 degree angle. I slightly touch back on the cyclic and it is instantly standing on it's tail just off the ground. I fought to get it back level and managed to set it down only stripping the torque tube gear when the rear rotor caught some grass. The main rotors passed inches from the grounds a few times in those few seconds. It was so close to being a major crash. I offered him a set of gears I had but he said don't worry about it. He had a few sets because he had already stripped them once. I checked his radio and he had -40 expo(futaba radio). It was 10 times more sensitive than my flybarred 450 or 250 was. I helped him change the gear and we got it back running again but I refuse to fly it for him again until I understand what the heck happened.

Is flybarless supposed to be THIS sensitive on takeoff? Stick movements that would make nice smooth movements on mine were nearly rolling his over. I can comfortably fly a 600 down to a 450 and 250 but this was crazy. If this is normal they should start including a clean set of underwear with the flybarless systems for first time users. If this isn't normal any suggestions as to what I did wrong?
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12-22-2010 12:06 AM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Was it a 3G?

I bet it was.lol...

They can be set up to fly really well but if something is off,they are a beeotch.

If he changed the trims after set up,it will see it as stick input and go nuts.

If you change trim or sub trim,go through the DIR set up all over again.

Did he set up the pitch right?It might have doubled the cyclic pitch going from FB to FBL.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-22-2010 12:09 AM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I have a 3G on my 600 NP by the way.
I am still asking for tips and it is my second 3G.

I hate setting up electronics.That is why I like the V Bar so much.
I took it out of the box,put it on and it was nearly perfect.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-22-2010 12:18 AM  9 years ago
Brad_B

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Gonzales, LA

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Mckrackin, yes it was a 3G. I'll have to ask him about the trim. It was set up right originally by another club member who test flew it when he went to pick it up. He could have very well tinkered with the trim though. All I know is that it was the most unstable thing I ever flew.
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12-22-2010 01:40 AM  9 years ago
B.T.D.T.

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NY

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When you take off. DO NOT touch the cyclic stick. With FBL just lifts off the ground and then you control the cyclics.

Yes it feels real weird doing that.

The Vbar I flew hovered by it'self right after take off.

Did he convert a FB to FBL. The setup of the links are different. Also did he do the 3G Mod?
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12-22-2010 09:47 AM  9 years ago
HilliHeli

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S.MI./FL.

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I checked his radio and he had -40 expo(futaba radio).
I always start at 0, adjust later if so-desired
(pretty-sure that amount of (-) would've made Her a real handfull around center-stick )
!Antriebe, die bewegen!
Henseleit-Helicopters.de
Jazz', Jives & vbar's
Futaba FASST / FASSTest
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12-22-2010 10:32 AM  9 years ago
The Old Guy

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UK Surrey

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Was the model moved before it inisialised?
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12-22-2010 10:47 AM  9 years ago
yannick

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South Korea

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with FBL, i alway take off without Idle up, at the minimum possible RPM. then once the heli is off the ground i tilt the idle 1. This way you will have very smooth and easy take off.Is it me or this time the ground was higher than last time??
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12-22-2010 03:15 PM  9 years ago
Brad_B

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Gonzales, LA

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I always start at 0, adjust later if so-desired
(pretty-sure that amount of (-) would've made Her a real handfull around center-stick )
Futaba is the opposite of Spektrum. This would be like +40% on a Spektrum.
When you take off. DO NOT touch the cyclic stick. With FBL just lifts off the ground and then you control the cyclics.

Yes it feels real weird doing that.
That could have had something to do with it too then. It nosed forward on takeoff though so I had to correct. He still had his training gear on it and I left them since I was just going to hover it and do a little slow flight. It almost acted like the gear or skids got hung in the grass for a second.
Was the model moved before it inisialised?
No. And I checked all control surface directions before takeoff and made sure the pitch of the blades moved in the right direction.
with FBL, i alway take off without Idle up, at the minimum possible RPM. then once the heli is off the ground i tilt the idle 1. This way you will have very smooth and easy take off.
It was in normal mode with the governer off.
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12-22-2010 04:14 PM  9 years ago
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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If this is normal they should start including a clean set of underwear with the flybarless systems for first time users.
That would be nice instead of a towel. Align silk screened boxers or briefs?

I just finished building and setup of my Trex600N Pro. Bought a 3G and installed it on the initial build up of a FB model. Need to test fly it , but it's been raining 22inches since around Thanksgiving. Appreciate the posts for the heads-up techniques.
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12-22-2010 06:43 PM  9 years ago
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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No. And I checked all control surface directions before takeoff and made sure the pitch of the blades moved in the right direction.
Yes but were the gyros correcting in the right direction??
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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12-22-2010 06:49 PM  9 years ago
Busher

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Manchester, England

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Could the induced vibration from his training gear upset the 3G unit to the point where it was not really controllable?. Those stick and ball jobs induce a serious amount of vibration into the frame.Good luck
Busher
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12-22-2010 06:50 PM  9 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Yes that is VERY possibleTeam MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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12-22-2010 08:45 PM  9 years ago
Santiago P

rrProfessor

Dayton

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Training gear on a FBL system, that is plain-freaking-fantastic. An I thought I heard it all... LOL

Brad_B:
BTW, tell your friend to research about the 3G goop mod here in RR. If his is anywhere loose, along with the vibration of the training gear, you have the receipe for an autonomous 3D show. Keep a video camera handy

If the 3G sensors are tight, the training gear vibration should not cause a crash, as the FBL unit senses rate of rotation, not linear translation. However any unwanted vibration on a heli will eventually screw things up.

If your friend is not an acconplished pilot, it would be best if he flew a flybar head, with lots of weight in the FB, at least til he becomes proficient.

good luck

Santiago
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12-22-2010 10:17 PM  9 years ago
Brad_B

rrNovice

Gonzales, LA

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Training gear on a FBL system, that is plain-freaking-fantastic. An I thought I heard it all... LOL
I said the same thing.
BTW, tell your friend to research about the 3G goop mod here in RR. If his is anywhere loose, along with the vibration of the training gear, you have the receipe for an autonomous 3D show. Keep a video camera handy
I will do both. Tell him and keep a camera handy.
If your friend is not an acconplished pilot, it would be best if he flew a flybar head, with lots of weight in the FB, at least til he becomes proficient.
I've also given this advice to people looking for their first heli and asking me only to be contradicted by someone who likes FBL. All you can do is give them your opinion and let them decide. Personally I feel it is easier to troubleshoot when something isn't acting quite right and you're still trying to figure out how these things work.
Yes but were the gyros correcting in the right direction??
Yes. BTW it has been hovered since then with the same setup. It just did something really wierd on me during takeoff as soon as it broke free from the ground.
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12-22-2010 10:19 PM  9 years ago
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Chances are the issue is the pins in the 3G system between the sensor plug and main unit. Sometimes they push in and cause erratic behavior......RonTeam MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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