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12-22-2010 05:55 PM  9 years ago
RC Dbutz

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Newman Lake, WA

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Why so much finger pointing to the other side? Both parties in this two-party system that runs the country are contributing to the mess. They each manage to dodge criticism by passing the buck to the next guy. Give it a few years and the Republicans will be in control again and they will be the ones causing all of the messes and incurring all of the blame. This categorizing of the "liberal mind" or the "conservative mind" is just divisive nonsense that lumps people who disagree with you into a single (and by your opinion, inferior) group. I'll bet every single one of you have at least one subject that you think liberally and one in which you think conservatively.

It's not just the liberals, it's not just the conservative, it's both of those guys. An extreme conservative makes me want slap them silly as much as an extreme liberal. There is a middle of the road where sanity lies and conclusions are not pre-determined by the letter following someone's name. Come join me!

Before Obama, Bush was definitely the worst president any of us have ever seen. The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld group did a real number on this nation. Unfortunately, as they stepped out, we ended up with the Obama/Pelosi/Reid group. THEY'RE ALL F'ED UP! The first group helped to get this country in the worst state any of us have seen, and the second group has somehow managed to make it worse.

Obama is spending WAY too much, but it's a long stretch from adding social programs (we can't afford) to being a muslim funded terrorist born in Kenya. You don't have to agree with the guy, but you don't have to keep bringing up non-issues like his dedication to the American public. Though he's not doing a great job with spending, I think that what he spends is intended to help the general American population. Because of the state of the union when he took over, Obama should have focused more on cleaning up, spending less, and improving unemployment.

Incorrectly, he thought that the way to fix these issues was to spend more money. Letting big companies fail would have resulted in more unemployment, so that was one issue Obama was destined to fail at. He spends more on a bail out, so people are pissed at the debt. He doesn't bail them out and the unemployment goes up 5% and people are pissed off at him for that. The guy jumped into a lose-lose situation and you have to realize that no matter who took the job, anyone was going to end up with low approval ratings.

The healthcare plan is a joke, and much of it needs to be repealed. There are some good points in there, but we have other issues to worry about before we focus on the healthcare (which still needs reform). Requiring every person to purchase healthcare or receive a fine is unconstitutional, and I'm confident that this part of the bill will be overturned.

Obama just can't win. If he doesn't work with the Republicans they will call him unreasonable and will filibuster everything. If he does work with the Republicans (like he's doing with the tax-cut extensions), then they criticize him for going against his own party. Whether the guy does everything you want or everything you don't want, you're still going to criticize what he does. Question is, what can the guy do to make you happy?

All I ask is that you guys just try to step back and see how much the right side is contributing to the nations problems as well. Our current problems go way beyond the past two years.
CITIZEN#005 - MD Helicopters, Xpert Servos, Scorpion Power, OptiPower
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12-22-2010 06:49 PM  9 years ago
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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I'd never in a BILLION years disagree with you on your point that both parties are at fault. I think even most cons would agree with you here.
So many (I'd say 80%) of our problems can be so easily solved with just a shred of common sense. I think a large number of average Americans could do a 1000% better job of running this country than the azzclowns we have in office now.
I've said it for years. Eliminate elections. Everybody takes an IQ test and a test in basic American government and the names go into a pot. Names are drawn, you serve 1 term (length to be determined) and then you go home. No pension, no lifelong benefits. You get paid the same as what they're paid now. Look at it as a lengthy jury service or being "drafted" into the government for 4 or 6 years.
Think of all the money you'd save in elections. Plus, corporate money in elections would be non-existent. Along with this, obviously you'd have to create some very strong anti-lobbying legislation.
As a side bar: no lawyers are allowed to serve....

PS - I saw a report the other day where they are expecting Obama's re-election campaign will run around 1 BILLION dollars. Insanity.
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12-22-2010 07:02 PM  9 years ago
RC Dbutz

rrApprentice

Newman Lake, WA

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Yes, put limits on campaign spending for sure. None of that should be able to come from private corporations with special interests either.

I like the idea and concept of people voting, but I think we should do away with things like the electoral college. It'd be great to have more transparency and voter turn out as well.

All gov't work should also be a part time job. I swear, most of these silly bills and non-issues come up because we have so many people working for the gov't and trying to look busy that they just create the most pointless and stupid things.
CITIZEN#005 - MD Helicopters, Xpert Servos, Scorpion Power, OptiPower
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12-22-2010 08:40 PM  9 years ago
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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What we should outlaw is candidates advertising for their jobs on TV and elsewhere. They should have to run on their knowledge and achievements and not their looks and lies! Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!
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12-22-2010 10:44 PM  9 years ago
JohnLund

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Corpus Christi, TX

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What we should outlaw is candidates advertising for their jobs on TV and elsewhere. They should have to run on their knowledge and achievements and not their looks and lies!
This along with removing any link to democrat or republican from their names on the ballot.

Better yet, condense their platforms into bullet points, and instead of voting for a name you vote for their platform.
Ron's Heliproz South
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12-22-2010 11:50 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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We just need a Constitutional amendment that says 4 things:

1) The Federal Budget WILL be balanced each and every year. Congress, Senate, or the President cannot spend any more than the federal government takes in. Exceptions will only be for national defense or at time of war.

2) All employees of the Local, State, and Federal government, including elected officials, shall be held accountable to the same laws as any US citizens. No exceptions.

3) No application for any electable office, either local, state, or Federal government electable office can apply until 90 days before voting begins.

4) No election campaign can start until 90 days before voting begins after application has been turned in. That applies to local, state, and federal electable positions.
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12-23-2010 12:29 AM  9 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Funny how all the republicans and tea baggers call it socialism
We don't.

Personal responsibility is NOT the same as having the government force you to do something that constitutionally it cannot.

Personal responsibility is taking care of oneself, not having my income taxed at confiscatory rates so that the government can distribute that money to people it thinks deserve it.

Automobile insurance. If you don't own a car, you cannot be forced to buy it. Automobile insurance is in place to make sure that the bank is covered for the loan it made to you on your vehicle should you demolish it. You don't own the car till it's paid for. when it's paid for, your insurance rates can go way down, because you can usually drop all but the liability coverage. Liability coverage is there in case you injure or kill someone with your car, or if you destroy someone else's property. It is there to make the injured parties whole again (as much as reasonably possible) should your actions harm them. It is NOT there for YOU.

Health insurance. What exactly is being insured? Will buying health insurance keep you from getting sick, injured, or from sustaining a catastrophic illness? Health insurance may be expensive because people aren't forced to actually pay for their own medical bills anymore. There was a time you went to the doctor, you paid him out of your pcoket. Costs were low. You could buy catastrophic coverage -- something to see to it that you don't go broke if a catastrophic illness occurred. People did not go to the doctor for every sniffle, bump, or bruise.

Now that insurance is in the loop, many people never see a bill, therefore they use the healthcare system for everything. After all, a trip to the ER might only cost a $20 or $30 copay. That additional $400 - $500 is paid by an insurer, and usually you don't even have to file any paperwork. To you, the visit only cost that copay. Since we are already conditioned to have a large percentage of our gross income confiscated automatically by payroll deduction, we don't miss that money - we've never seen it. Add to that the fact that your employer allows you to pay for your health insurance via payroll deduction, again, you never SAW that money, therefore you don't miss it. Except perhaps once a year at open enrollment time when you see that next year is going to cost you $25 a month more for your coverage.

The healthcare bill as it currently stands will first drive any and all private insurers out of business, by design. That will necessarily end up with the Government being the only supplier of healthcare coverage. Single Payer is what it is called, and that is the long-term goal of the plan as it currently stands.

Of course, once the Government becomes the sole insurer, the Government will then be the only decider of who gets what coverage. After all, the government will never be able to afford to pay for every treatment for everyone, and it cannot raise enough income via taxes to support paying for all treatments for everyone. Rationing will occur, and bureaucrats will be the deciders of who gets what treatment. That is already occurring where the government plan is beginning to roll out.

Also, the government, as the sole insurer, can now demand that you make certain "lifestyle" choices or they will deny you coverage. Eat french fries? Sorry, you're not covered. Like hamburgers? Unhealthy, you're not covered. Smoke, sorry, go away and die. You're 55 years old and need dialysis to live? You're too old, we can't afford to cover you. Go die.

The only way that a government run system can work is to ration coverage and deny coverage. That is fact that is already playing out in EVERY country that has adopted a single-payer, government run healthcare system.

But apparently, that's OK with you.

-----

Don't even get me started with your inane rant about how evil corporations are and how they are only out to screw everyone. Without corporations, you have nothing BUT socialism. The government becomes the only source of income for people, the only source of goods and services. Remember, the government has NOTHING to SELL, they create nothing, they produce no goods and they do nothing to promote commerce. They can only take. There is only one way for a government to have money. Take it via taxes, fees, tariffs, and levies from people engaged in commerce who have the money to buy and sell goods and services.

Eliminate elections, you instill a monarchy or dictatorship. That is NOT the correct solution.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

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12-23-2010 01:24 AM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Don't even get me started with your inane rant about how evil corporations are and how they are only out to screw everyone. Without corporations, you have nothing BUT socialism.
Keep something in mind about socialism:

In order for socialism to survive, it must have capitalism as well.

Proof of that is socialist countries around the world are worse off than we are right now. Thats not to say we won't fail. That still could happen, unfortunately.

In fact, speaking for myself, I think the $5 trillion debt we have built up in the last 4 years, that could easily tip us over the edge. That is a record we have not seen in all of our history.
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12-23-2010 01:42 AM  9 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Speaking of the current administration...

I recall both Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi recently stating that unemployment benefits were a STIMULUS. That was why we needed to extend them from what they were to another 13 months. I think that bumps the unemployment benefit stuff up to 99 weeks.

Paying people NOT to work is now considered a good thing by our current government. It's better to pay people to stay unemployed than it is to cut taxes and reduce government's control of the private sector through regulation and red tape. What a country!

Maybe Harry and Nancy need to spend the next 99 weeks living on unemployment to get a first-hand idea of how stimulating that can be.

On a related note. This year I got a Christmas bonus from the evil corporation for whom I work.

That was the good news. The bad news is that by the time the direct deposit made it into my bank account, Uncle Sam, FICA, and the State tax folk made off with 39% of my bonus.

39%, off the top. GONE. That is money that will never make it into the economy, will never buy a good or a service, will never allow an evil corporation to make a profit so they can hire more workers.

My company has something on the order of about 10,000 employees locally. Most everyone got a bonus. Most everyone had that 39% just disappear. Imagine the amount of "stimulus" -- the REAL kind -- was taken out of the local economy by the Government.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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12-23-2010 02:07 AM  9 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld group did a real number on this nation.
I see/hear this often from the left. But to this day, other than the blanket charge that no one ever seems to bother to challenge, what is it exactly that they "did". I know that is a question that will get a lot of people in line to scream and shout, but before doing so...exactly what did they "do"? Please post facts, not talking points.

-----

This is kind of akin to the pre-November electioneering from the Democrat of the day political ad that any Republican "voted to give tax breaks to the corporations while sending jobs overseas". No one ever challenged that assertion, but a little research indicated that the charge itself simply didn't hold water, and any jobs "sent out of the country" would have been done so, anyway. The program that apparently spawned this charge was only allowed a year to run by the congress. That year seemed to be really bad, but it was simply a year of those horrible evil corporations shedding excess baggage in preparation for expansion that would have occurred, had the tax program not been allowed to expire.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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12-23-2010 02:11 AM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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I recall both Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi recently stating that unemployment benefits were a STIMULUS. That was why we needed to extend them from what they were to another 13 months. I think that bumps the unemployment benefit stuff up to 99 weeks.
Yeah, I remember when she said that. She actually said unemployment is a good thing for the economy and creates jobs.

In other words, if you took her literally:

"We should ALL go on unemployment so that we could get jobs"

You know, I hope she stays around and keeps talking. She is the face of the progressive left and exposes herself and the progressive left every time she opens her ugly, botox yap. We need her to constantly remind us all why we voted those other scumbags out.

And, she could easily have a direct impact at helping to bring down Obama in 2012. As long as she keeps talking.
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12-23-2010 03:37 AM  9 years ago
JohnLund

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Corpus Christi, TX

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Quote
The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld group did a real number on this nation.
I see/hear this often from the left. But to this day, other than the blanket charge that no one ever seems to bother to challenge, what is it exactly that they "did".
Medicare Part D, Iraq war, Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, The Patriot Act and the following enormous expansion of the government and it's powers, etc, etc.
Ron's Heliproz South
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12-23-2010 05:13 AM  9 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Other than the fact that about 25 million Iraqis are no longer under the control of a dictator who invaded a sovereign nation, who set fire to a large part of the middle east, paying suicide bombers worldwide to kill, playing cat and mouse with "weapons inspectors", and after a decade of saber rattling, and having his bluff finally called, exactly how was the Iraq war "wrong"?

The following enormous expansion of the government and its powers seems to be truly following -- the Obama administration. I don't believe the Patriot Act was responsible for that. That was the handiwork of an ideolog leader who used sleight of hand to become elected and who puts ideology above all else. Under the Patriot Act, I can't recall full-body back-scatter X-rays at airports, or invasive personal body searches of old ladies, six-year old children, and babies in diapers in order to board an airplane.

I don't recall the Patriot Act or the economic stimulus act particularly being hell-bent on dismantling the automobile industry in order to pay back the unions as a political thank you, or nationalizing healthcare while demonizing the insurance industry, or attempting to nationalize the banking industry while demonizing Wall Street. I don't recall the Patriot Act as being particularly invasive, intrusive, or causing a lot of grief for the average Joe American.

The economic stimulus act of 2008 was not a particularly brilliant idea, I agree. It opened the door for what followed. But that door was also stampeded by the gloom and doom of what seems to have been a well orchestrated, October Surprise, with the almost overnight economic collapse on election eve.

It would be interesting to see how George Soros, who has taken a very active part in causing the economic downfall of many nations over the years by creating financial crises, and funding hundreds of "separate" seemingly harmless, but nonetheless seditious front groups, then fomenting unrest leading to civil war, was involved in creating the economic downturn that led to the economic crisis and the situation we are now in. He has as his publicly stated goal to bring down the economy of the United States, and to destroy the country. That is no secret. Perhaps the current administration, in its "let no crisis go to waste" attitude, coupled with its class warfare, anti-business approach either got lucky in October, or is somehow complicit.

The Bush administration was not helped by the likes of Lindsay Graham and John McCain who seemed more than willing to sacrifice the Administration in an effort to demonstrate their ability to "cross the aisle" and perhaps position themselves for their own political goals.

President Bush was not the lone driving force in the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008. Frankly, I believe that since he had been cut off at the knees so many times in critical situations by the "moderate" Republicans such as John McCain, he may have had no choice but to go along with it. It was painfully obvious in his last year or so of his last term, that when he really needed the support of his party in the Congress, that it was never to be forthcoming. I haven't read his book, but maybe I should pick up a copy to see what he has to say about that last year in office. I think it would be a fascinating conversation to have with him, to get a candid view of what was going on in his inner circle that last year. It might be quite surprising.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

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12-23-2010 05:59 AM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Well said dkshema.

Just one thing. I don't think Soros all by himself created the economic mess. He probably had a hand in it. In fact, based on his history, he most likely did have a hand in it.

But, the primary responsibility for that whole mess lies directly with the boobs in Washington DC. Mostly on the left. But, the right had a hand in it as well to some degree.

I am hoping that this new Congress, and future ones, will force some accountability for that.

But, I won't be holding my breath.

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12-23-2010 06:11 AM  9 years ago
dilberteinstein

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texas - USA

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splitboarder
Only an idiot would reject this health care law.

no I need to re-state that

If you do not own your own hospital, and are not independently wealth and your against this then you havent done any research or..............................your an idiot

And when your real old guess what your insurance is ?

Medicade

Hey you brainiacs

how come no one over 65 can afford a private helthcare policy ?
Call me an idiot if it makes you feel better, or anything else that you want. I am opposed to the healthcare bill.

I am real old and I do not have Medicaid and I never will.

As far as old people having private insurance, I have private insurance. I kept private insurance on my mother-in-law until she passed away at 80.

You are making statements that are not true. You can keep believing that leftist made-up stuff all you want and you can keep saying them, but that will not make them come true.
90% of life is "showing up"
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12-23-2010 06:22 AM  9 years ago
JohnLund

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Corpus Christi, TX

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Doesn't matter if Iraqis are more "free", that's not why we went in, and it's not our responsibility. We invaded their country based on lies, and then proceeded to throw the private contractors billions to do many, many, many things the military should have been doing so yea, they (Iraqis) may be more "free", but if we had car bombs going off in markets every other day here, or competing secular faction making up our non-functional government I don't think anyone would be exactly jumping for joy. Not too mention the war is something we can not afford, couldn't then, and really can't now.

Of course Obama is doing nothing to reign in what Bush started, as a matter of fact, he is expanded on it, that doesn't mean the Bush Co™ is off the hook for getting the ball rolling. Full body scanners, and the TSA grop-a-thon is all piggy backing off the Patriot Act and the agencies that Bush created to keep us "safe".

Obviously Bush was not alone, he had a ton of support from the demorats, and the rest of the neo-con RINOs. Both the demorat/republican Congress for the last decade plus, and Bush Co™'s administration are neck deep in the problems we have today, and turning a blind partisan eye to that fact is going to do nothing but insure it continues.

Dennis, we can not count on Washington to fix the problems it created. There is no incentive for politicians to control their drunken spree's. It is up to us to make sure that come every election the ones that can't control themselves are booted out of office. Unfortunately though with our Lesser of Two Evils party system it's virtually guaranteed that the more things "change" the more they will stay the same, until we send a, apparently a more clear than last mid-term, message that We the People are not going to have anymore their shenanigans.
Ron's Heliproz South
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12-23-2010 06:29 AM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Dennis, we can not count on Washington to fix the problems it created. There is no incentive for politicians to control their drunken spree's. It is up to us to make sure that come every election the ones that can't control themselves are booted out of office. Unfortunately though with our Lesser of Two Evils party system it's virtually guaranteed that the more things "change" the more they will stay the same, until we send a, apparently a more clear than last mid-term, message that We the People are not going to have anymore their shenanigans.
Well, we did send that message to Washington last month John. It was a resounding defeat to the libs. Absolutely no doubt about that.

Now, all we have to do is wait and see if those votes made any real difference. The new Congress & Senate has not taken office yet.

We'll have to see what happens.

Its not going to be pretty. By early spring, or early summer, we could easily see rioting in the streets of a lot of major cities when those tax eating dip sh#ts realize that an end is coming for those checks they have been getting each month for doing nothing. Some people are going to get hurt and the left will be firing the first shot.

The blame is going to go right onto the new leaders in Washington. Its going to be a tough one. For sure.
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12-23-2010 06:43 AM  9 years ago
JohnLund

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Corpus Christi, TX

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I don't know if I would call it a "resounding defeat", the demorats still hold two branch's. The question is, as you said will be answered in time, was the message clear enough, from some things going on, I don't think it was. One good thing is with the new Census results, republicans will hopefully be picking up a bunch of new seats.Ron's Heliproz South
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12-23-2010 06:56 AM  9 years ago
dilberteinstein

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texas - USA

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RC Dbutz
You don't have to agree with the guy, but you don't have to keep bringing up non-issues like his dedication to the American public.

Obama should have focused more on cleaning up, spending less, and improving unemployment.

The healthcare plan is a joke, and much of it needs to be repealed.

All I ask is that you guys just try to step back and see how much the right side is contributing to the nations problems as well. Our current problems go way beyond the past two years.
You don't have to agree with the guy, but you don't have to keep bringing up non-issues like his dedication to the American public.

Yes I do.
I live in Texas and we are overrun with illegals that drain our legal system, our schools, our social programs, our medical resources, and contribute to high unemployment.

Obama has chosen to sue Arizona. Obama is clearly pandering to illegals in order to keep the Hispanic vote.

Do you agree with Obama over this?

Obama should have focused more on cleaning up, spending less, and improving unemployment.

Yes he should have and everyone from the Independents to the polls kept telling him this, but he would not listen to the American people.

Looks like you didn't agree with Obama on this.

The healthcare plan is a joke, and much of it needs to be repealed.

Simple isn't it? How do you eat an elephant? Answer: one bite at a time. Had Obama decided to take the most critical part of healthcare today (people dying) and presented that, he would have had the backing of the American people.

Had Obama made the statement that we will let NOT people die for lack of health insurance and then set about to handle the most vulnerable people in our society, he would have hit a home run. Instead, he passed what you called "a joke." It's just not funny.

Looks like we agree on that also.

All I ask is that you guys just try to step back and see how much the right side is contributing to the nations problems as well. Our current problems go way beyond the past two years.

You can blame the right, left, and the middle if you want to. But the fact is Obama campaigned for this job and he had the majority in both houses for the past two years...not Bush, not Clinton, not Eisenhower, not FDR. He asked to have the job. In your own words, you called his healthplan a "joke" and you stated he should have focused more on cleaning up, spending less, and improving unemployment. I don't how you feel about Arizona.

We can't fix the past, but we don't have to sue Arizona in the present and we don't have to pass a 2000 page healthcare "joke."
90% of life is "showing up"
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12-23-2010 12:41 PM  9 years ago
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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So it wasn't a good idea for us to be in Iraq even though it positioned us in the perfect place to keep Isreal and Iran from starting WW3? And it stopped Saddam from using his chemical weapons on the Kurds again. Not to mention who ever else he felt like gassing.
It would be interesting to see how George Soros, who has taken a very active part in causing the economic downfall of many nations over the years by creating financial crises, and funding hundreds of "separate" seemingly harmless, but nonetheless seditious front groups, then fomenting unrest leading to civil war, was involved in creating the economic downturn that led to the economic crisis and the situation we are now in. He has as his publicly stated goal to bring down the economy of the United States, and to destroy the country.
And Obama and the democrats are his party of choice!
This is something that needs to be investigated in light of the sweet heart deal Obama gave Soros on the oil rights in the gulf. Especially after closing the gulf to everyone else!

Of course that is the kind of thing that people get killed for looking into!
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!
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