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01-01-2011 08:08 AM  7 years agoPost 1941
BobOD

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New York- USA

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On a more serious note. I had a bunch of people here all day today. I wound up not getting anything done on the 600N but did get to do a little research. You know me, I like unbiased, scientifically gathered information. None were familiar with Nitro or Lipos. Here's what I found.

--First, I handed them a lipo.
Observations -
unanamous...look on face like "bob's a nut, why do I come here?"

--Then I told them it was 18 volts, 4200mah.
Observations -
The guys reaction was...look on face like "bob's a nut, why do I come here?"

The gals just returned a blank stare. One of them tried to fake interest but wasn't.

--Then I told them it could deliver about 200 amps continuous or about 3600 watts.
Observations -
With the guys, it got a few raised eyebrows and even a couple wows. And then ..."so what".
The gals just returned a blank stare. Started to get fidgety and wanted to get away from me.

--Then I told them it could probably power a vibrator 24-7 for 60 days straight.
Observations -
All the guys laughed.
The gals showed mixed reaction. Some laughed, some looked disgusted some actually looked interested now. :P

--Then I handed them a YS50 Nitro Motor
Observations -
All the guys showed immediate interest. They turned it all around. Flipped the carb open and closed. Tried spinning the shaft. A few even wiped a little oil off it, rubbed between their fingers and sniffed. Noone touched the needle valve though.
The girls...either blank look or just complete boredom. Until they realized it was sticky and wanted to get rid of it and go wash their hands.

Conclusions:
-Most people think lipos are funny.
-It was easier for the girls to find them useful.
-Girls think nitros are dirty, messy things.
-GUYS think nitros are COOL!
-You should use mixture control because most guys don't like messing with needles.

Team POP Secret

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01-01-2011 10:25 AM  7 years agoPost 1942
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Happy 2011 everyone!
No, no, you got it all wrong bro, instead of showing them a battery vs. an engine, you should have shown them a nice 700 sized brushless, 3 phase kick ass electric motor and told them it peaks at 7-8 HP and runs on 40-50 volts vs this POS little glow motor(.90 size) which peaks at 3-4 HP. Now that's impressive! If your gonna show them a battery, then be fair and show them a pint of CP 30%, and say "see this glow fuel, it contains 30% nitromethane, and will power this glow motor up to about half the peak HP that 2 of these batteries will power this 3 phase kick ass brushless motor to". Then see what their reaction will be!!!

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01-01-2011 12:21 PM  7 years agoPost 1943
blazen

rrApprentice

California

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"2 of these batteries will power this 3 phase kick ass brushless motor to"
Actually you can't compare batteries to glow fuel. Unlike glow fuel, batteries by themselves cannot generate the power needed by the motor. You do realize batteries are nothing more than storage. Ultimately the power needed to power the motor comes from another source.

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01-01-2011 04:57 PM  7 years agoPost 1944
BobOD

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New York- USA

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be fair and show them a pint of CP 30%, and say "see this glow fuel, it contains 30% nitromethane,
I was going to do that but these blokes would've gulped it down. It was a New Years Eve Party for crying out loud.
My head hurts.

Team POP Secret

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01-01-2011 05:01 PM  7 years agoPost 1945
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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Actually you can't compare batteries to glow fuel. Unlike glow fuel, batteries by themselves cannot generate the power needed by the motor. You do realize batteries are nothing more than storage. Ultimately the power needed to power the motor comes from another source.
That is over thinking it for the sole purpose of being argumentative.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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01-01-2011 05:07 PM  7 years agoPost 1946
Blades345

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FL

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Maybe if someone hurts blades345's feelings again we could get another 4 pages out of this dead horse
Sorry Visa but I had better things to do than sit online and post until New Years hit unlike you.

I enjoyed the Zac Brown Band concert in Atlanta,,, home of some of the crappest looking areas in the U.S. The concert was great especially after 10 beers. The funniest part was the guy in front of us singing and dancing for everyone, and he obviously had more beers than me. Happy New Year to everyone on here. Can't wait to see the advances in electric in 2011, so we can finally put nitro in its grave where it belongs.

Who is going to be the person to make this thread reach 100 pages, and what prize do they get? Bob, I'm looking in your direction on this one.

When u don't feel like soaring through the air with a plane, beat it into submission w/ a heli!

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01-01-2011 05:08 PM  7 years agoPost 1947
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Actually you can't compare batteries to glow fuel. Unlike glow fuel, batteries by themselves cannot generate the power needed by the motor. You do realize batteries are nothing more than storage. Ultimately the power needed to power the motor comes from another source
Sounds like your grasping....

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01-01-2011 05:13 PM  7 years agoPost 1948
Blades345

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FL

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Bob, I agree with the others. Show them a gallon of fuel vs a battery and see which they find more interesting, otherwise show them the electric motor vs the nitro engine.

What would really blow them away is if you show them a flight on the nitro then a bad ass flight on the electic and see how amazed they are then.

When u don't feel like soaring through the air with a plane, beat it into submission w/ a heli!

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01-01-2011 05:24 PM  7 years agoPost 1949
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Blazen, first I'll respond to your ealier post.
Granted the actual costs might only be a few dollars per day per person but over a month of flying it adds up quickly.
Do the math, it is actually pennies a day per person. The biggest monthly cost for field electric power is typically the base fee. We pay $64.80 as a base fee and 6.47 cents per kWh for the first 1000 kWh.
http://www.talgov.com/you/electric/...e_factsheet.pdf

Now, take 20 pilots a day flying large 12S electrics (5000mAh packs)(Note: this is a rather high assumption since there are about five per day at my field, if that many), 6 flights per day per pilot (using 80% of packs), times 30 days. That equals 1,040 kWh assuming a 70% efficiency of charging equipment. The cost for electricity is only $67 per month. That works out to 11 cents per pilot each day for electricity usage! Add the base fee into this equation and it is still less than a 25 cents, a silly little quarter.

It would cost far more to meter and account for this small usage on an individual basis. So, even if you live in an area with high electric rates, the cost of electricity will be a drop in the bucket compared to total cost of operating a field. It is far cheaper than nitro!

Now, in repsonse to this post of yours.
Actually you can't compare batteries to glow fuel. Unlike glow fuel, batteries by themselves cannot generate the power needed by the motor. You do realize batteries are nothing more than storage. Ultimately the power needed to power the motor comes from another source.
Everything we use to provide energy could be considered an energy storage device. Almost all energy that we use comes from/starts as nuclear power. Most of the earth's energy comes from the sun as solar radiation, sunlight. This energy is converted to various other forms of energy such as fossil fuels (wood, charcoal, coal, coke, oil, etc.); and non-fossil sources such as wind, tides, etc. Even the molecules that make up nitro and other non-fossil fuels come from the sun or long ago stars through fusion reactions.

In a sense, the battery is not that much different than nitro fuel. Both their energy comes from another source. Did you know that most batteries start out mostly charged. Mix the acid into the cells of a lead acid battery and it is ready to go. It may require additional charging to be at full, but it certainly has energy from the start.

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01-01-2011 05:38 PM  7 years agoPost 1950
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Hey, my last post was long. That should count as two.

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01-01-2011 06:20 PM  7 years agoPost 1951
BobOD

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New York- USA

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You should have made it 2. :P
What would really blow them away is if you show them a flight on the nitro then a bad ass flight on the electic and see how amazed they are then.
Actually, I had done. Described it above but I ain't looking for it. :P

This is actually true and even I was pretty taken by it as I was more into electric at the time. Similar situation. Had several people. Something like 7 or 8 women and 6 or 7 guys. Again, none had RC experience. I flew both helis and then asked which they wanted to see again.
Every guy chose the Nitro and every gal chose the Electric. OK, the gals were a little afraid of the smoke and noise and really not so interested in either heli and I'm just having fun with that. In fact, one of the girls started panicking because she was afraid the ground caught fire before I even took off.
But, I even tried to explain to the guys that the electric was WAY more powerful. Heck, this was a Logo 600 setup to ROCK versus a bone stock T600 with a YS50 running 2000 RPM. :P I even took the electric up and showed them how much more power it had and although they were impressed, they were still more interested in the nitro. In fact, if anything they were only disappointed to hear the nitro wasn't more powerful....so I stopped pushing that.

Honest to God true and I have repeated this with other smaller groups. Try it some day for yourself. I know this is only first impression...but I found it very interesting indeed.

Team POP Secret

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01-01-2011 06:28 PM  7 years agoPost 1952
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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You mean a T600 and YS50?

I literally never use the word literally right.

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01-01-2011 06:35 PM  7 years agoPost 1953
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Yeah, definitely a screwed up mentality...to be more impressed with something that is clearly inferior just because it makes more obnoxious noise and smoke! That's what being addicted to petro has done for us

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01-01-2011 06:46 PM  7 years agoPost 1954
hornet dave

rrKey Veteran

Cedar Rapids, IA USA

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it's the same mentality that has guys running 2300 rpm headspeeds on 600's. People equate "power" with blade noise. It's silly nonsense but that's the average joe for you.

I got a fever! The only prescription is MORE 6HV

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01-01-2011 07:01 PM  7 years agoPost 1955
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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I got a fever! The only prescription is MORE 6HV
Funny sig Dave.

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01-01-2011 07:26 PM  7 years agoPost 1956
BobOD

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New York- USA

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You mean a T600 and YS50?
OOPS...yes. T600

Team POP Secret

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01-01-2011 07:34 PM  7 years agoPost 1957
BobOD

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New York- USA

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something that is clearly inferior just because it makes more obnoxious noise and smoke!
Instinct still drives us my friend.

Not so clearly superior. Can't keep letting you sneak that in.

You know...you e-guys just don't seem to like good data.

And, BTW, the power stroke on a Nitro is only about 25% of a rotation. So, when it's running at it's rated 3.5HP, it's really peaking above 3.5/25% = 14 HP. Well above actually but I'd have to make some more little assumptions and I know how you guys hate that.

Team POP Secret

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01-01-2011 07:49 PM  7 years agoPost 1958
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Plus practical, hands on experience shows which is more powerful...by far, and I've flown lots of both(big E's and N's). But it's not just the actual in flight power difference that makes E's superior, it's several things here-to-fore mentioned...

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01-01-2011 07:55 PM  7 years agoPost 1959
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Band,
Give me your stats on your best e-setup. 600 class if you have that.
Heli model
cell count
mah
head speed
flight duration
mah put back in
motor used
AUW
Type of flying

Team POP Secret

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01-01-2011 07:56 PM  7 years agoPost 1960
Andy.Kim

rrVeteran

Seattle, WA

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One of the pitfalls to nitro is tracing unwanted vibes. For the past month I've had a bad tail vibe and after sharing a video I made a couple days ago we found out it's a bad piston ring!!

here's the video with the unwanted tail vibe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8wbDc58Wvs

Once I change out the piston ring my flybarless conversion will be complete. Even with the bad piston ring there is adequate power from nitros. I can't wait to get the heli to 100%

Happy New Year to my fellow nitros and a friendly hello to you electrics.

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