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HomeOff Topics › Nitro vs. Electric
12-28-2010 10:59 PM  7 years agoPost 1681
YuNoHavinStock!

rrNovice

riverton, ut

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As far as cost, it all depends on how long those lipos will last. I hear 50-60 cycles, about 80-90 cycles, and a few with 180+ and still fine for them. I only have about 40 cycles on my 6s 2650's for my 500. With the way I take care of them I would guess I will see 80 cycles maybe. I hear people say with 12s electric you can use 20c lipos and be fine and maybe the higher voltage is easier on the batteries, maybe someday I'll get a big E-heli.

The only thing I don't like about electric is this.

Compared to this.

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12-28-2010 11:14 PM  7 years agoPost 1682
Blades345

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FL

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I keep hearing 50 to 60 cycles, but that is the biggest load of horse SH$# I have heard! I don't know what the hell you guys are rambling on about with such low cycles. I am getting above that no problem. I have 45 on all mine right now and they are still rock hard with no signs of power loss. I have a buddy who got over 200 on his Turnigy and it still ran good. I love the nitro guys on this thread that try to tell me that 50 to 60 cycles is all most people get. Sorry, but I'm throwing the BS flag on that one!

Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining!

When u don't feel like soaring through the air with a plane, beat it into submission w/ a heli!

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12-28-2010 11:27 PM  7 years agoPost 1683
YuNoHavinStock!

rrNovice

riverton, ut

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If I get 150 cycles with decent power on the packs I have then I'm buying a 12s 600, but I sure as hell won't be lugging a generator to the field.

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12-28-2010 11:40 PM  7 years agoPost 1684
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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Blades345
I keep hearing 50 to 60 cycles, but that is the biggest load of horse SH$# I have heard! I don't know what the hell you guys are rambling on about with such low cycles
Speek for yourself before you start a pissing match.You don't fly like me or anyone else so you can get more life out of your packs.The most I put back in mine is 1982mAh so thats more than safe and the power supply won't allow my charger to balance charge past 2.5A.

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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12-28-2010 11:43 PM  7 years agoPost 1685
Blades345

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FL

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Speek for yourself before you start a pissing match.You don't fly like me or anyone else so you can get more life out of your packs.The most I put back in mine is 1982mAh so thats more than safe and the power supply won't allow my charger to balance charge past 2.5A.
You don't even know how hard I fly, so how can you sit there and assume you fly hard and I don't. I put my packs under stress and fly them hard, but yet I still get way more than 50 to 60 cycles on each pack. Maybe I just know how to treat my packs better than most idiots out there.

When u don't feel like soaring through the air with a plane, beat it into submission w/ a heli!

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12-28-2010 11:48 PM  7 years agoPost 1686
YuNoHavinStock!

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riverton, ut

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12-28-2010 11:55 PM  7 years agoPost 1687
Andy.Kim

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Seattle, WA

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LMFAO, damn that was funny... carry on fellas

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12-28-2010 11:55 PM  7 years agoPost 1688
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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There is a misconception that it is "how hard" you fly that kills lipos when in fact it is the setup or just plain abuse. I have been using lipos since they came out and that is the common theme with them all. You treat them well, they last.....you abuse them, they die. Of course there are bad cells and bad lipos but the overwhelming majority of them are good. Some are definitely better than others but most are good. 50-60 cycles means one of two things.... bad setup or abuse especially when you get that from every lipo you use. Whether it comes from a cheap charger, over discharging the lipo, bad storage voltages (too high or too low), or physical damages from crashes, too high a HS for a given setup which over taxes the lipo during the flight, it is still abuse.
When Kyle Dahl and many other pro pilots can get 100s of cycles out of packs, then the "how hard you fly" argument is disproved. They fly harder than anyone here and they do it contunually.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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12-28-2010 11:56 PM  7 years agoPost 1689
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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Blades345
Speek for yourself before you start a pissing match.You don't fly like me or anyone else so you can get more life out of your packs.The most I put back in mine is 1982mAh so thats more than safe and the power supply won't allow my charger to balance charge past 2.5A.
You don't even know how hard I fly, so how can you sit there and assume you fly hard and I don't. I put my packs under stress and fly them hard, but yet I still get way more than 50 to 60 cycles on each pack. Maybe I just know how to treat my packs better than most idiots out there.
Guess I can say the same thing to you about taking care of my equipment.I might not be a hot/pro pilot but I don't have a problem posting video to show im not a pro 3D internet pilot.
Most idiots will internet fly,talk your ear off and tell you how your equipment will last when they don't know,just saying..

LOL Visa Flyer.

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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12-29-2010 12:05 AM  7 years agoPost 1690
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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..

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12-29-2010 12:17 AM  7 years agoPost 1691
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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^^^right on, that's more realistic. Of course you could get 25 flights/ gal if you only used 1/3 tank/ flight.

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12-29-2010 12:20 AM  7 years agoPost 1692
Blades345

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FL

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Sorry, but I'm not going out and buying a video camera at the moment, just to tape my flying so I can make some jackA$$es online happy. Oh no,, you can't see my flying so I must be lying about how well I fly. Get a life!

When u don't feel like soaring through the air with a plane, beat it into submission w/ a heli!

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12-29-2010 12:22 AM  7 years agoPost 1693
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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The only thing I don't like about electric is this.
You could use one charger and one power supply to do what all that is doing now. Plus that gallon will give 6 flights on a .90 and 9 flights on a .50. The PS and one 3010B or FMA PL8 will give an endless number of flights in a day...

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12-29-2010 12:26 AM  7 years agoPost 1694
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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Probably explains the wide variation in what folks think 50's get per gallon. 9 is probably realistic if you fly down to "safe" levels, but someone claiming 12 who quits at about a quarter tank isn't really "lying" either.
Yup,11-12 tanks and fly for 7 1/2 to 8 mins per tank.I always ran the tank almost dry but I never fill it plum full..

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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12-29-2010 12:29 AM  7 years agoPost 1695
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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Blades345
Sorry, but I'm not going out and buying a video camera at the moment, just to tape my flying so I can make some jackA$$es online happy. Oh no,, you can't see my flying so I must be lying about how well I fly. Get a life! :rolleyes
No need to keep disrespecting people because your feelings are hurt,you make yourself look like what you call people.But you are states away so feel free to act your age I guess.

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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12-29-2010 12:30 AM  7 years agoPost 1696
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Probably explains the wide variation in what folks think 50's get per gallon. 9 is probably realistic if you fly down to "safe" levels, but someone claiming 12 who quits at about a quarter tank isn't really "lying" either.
They are when they claim 9-10 minute flight times on 2/3rds or 3/4ths of a tank!

And anyone who is consistently getting only 5-60 cycles out of a modern LiPo pack needs to check their charging equipment first thing.

I had a charger a coupel of years ago that had bad firmware. It would overcharge packs before going to CV mode. My packs were not lasting more than 50 flight using that charger. After sending the charger back to the manufacturer and having it reprogramed, my packs lasted much longer. With my current charging equipment I can easily get 100 cycles on packs under 3D flight conditions.

I agree with laughingstill. It is not how hard you fly. Proper setup and equipment as well as not leaving packs fully charged for long is key to long LiPo life.

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12-29-2010 12:35 AM  7 years agoPost 1697
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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ViasFlyer to be fair. You don't need only that 1 gallon jug, you also need. Starter, battery for starter unless you have a bat equiped starter. You also need glo quick, unless you have on board glow igntor system, you also need the pump to pump the fuel out. Now you also may need a small screwdriver to tune you heli, especially given if the ambient has changed, which in many places of this earth it does.

You could resort as well to much more compact comparisons of electric setups such as this.

Thats a 1470 Pelican, laptop case, total weight with all gear is 13.2 pounds. That's also 2000 watts, allowing back to back flying on only having 4-5 packs at your side.

Other notes, 600N gets 9.5 flights to gallon of 30% Cool Power, anything less in % is just well, not so great power this is IMO. This is with main tank "empty" and header tank getting to half full, it really is empty. I suppose if I ran a .30 motor I could get 11-12 tanks per gallon, or if I backed off headspeed, but that would be pathetic power IMO. If some are getting more then their tank may be smaller, this could be, only stating those amount of flights per gallon with Rappy 50 and the 600N, cost per gallon here for 30% is roughly 37-40 bucks a gallon putting each flight at 4-6 dollars per flight and around 7 - 7.2 mins max on both, anything less then 30% to me is well... abit gutless, so use what works for you and your requirements in regards to fuel.

Other: 50-60 cycles yes I seen that as well a year + ago, no discrediting that, but that was on Outrage packs that well were best at beggining and definetely weeped off and lost their "useable" cycles thereafter in the 75-85 cycles, hence why they're not in buisness anymore.

Only this year 2010 Dave Dahl himself quoted well over 150 cycles strong on several TP packs 30C Pro Powers, this was with Kyle Dahl flying and I'd be safe to say that 95% plus off us don't fly more or fly harder then say Kyle does.

Cost per flight is definetely how to calculate what works for you. However lets not forget there is also a point where a Nitro motor needs to be rebuilt. Although the costs os a new sleeve, piston, rings is not for sure overwhelming, it's there as well the time to do it, if time is worth money to you. On average my Raptor 50 and my 600N have needed such rebuilding in 10-12 gallons, I seen 8-9.5 flighs per gallon tuned to get most power I could of of them at 13/13 and around 2150-2175rpm on head.

It is very possible to get three to four more cycles on todays good packs versus a year ago + this is for certain.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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12-29-2010 12:43 AM  7 years agoPost 1698
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Several things kill lipos of any range in price and quality:

1.) Storing packs at storage value 3.85-3.95 volts per cell. Many I've seen and heard will store them at either full or near full for extended times, this in fact degrades the lithium coating/plates at accelerated rates. Packs can be left full voltage for around a period of 5-7 days without degrading, past that expect to see some loss.

2.) Over flying the total mah capacity at 80% rule, this also is a killer, on any pack indeed.

3.) In extreme heat, heat kills. You can still fly lipos no problem, but observe the packs exterior and bed heat, past 50 degrees C can and will also deteriorate cell life. One can simply back off their time abit or just as said, take note on what your cell temps are with your setup.

4.) Cold weather. As it gets colder out, naturally this increases resistance, it is only advised then to make sure the packs have not been outside for extended periods of time, prior to flight. As well if possible to simply pre heat them, say on your register of your vehicle before flight, then again observe their temps and voltage at landing, this is key as resistance is up it's important to not overfly them.

5.) As stated many people will buy cheap chargers, thing with some is their actual balacing abilities and how they do in fact balance, there is a big difference on how effective a HK charger is compared to a 3010B or a PL8 and or TP 1010 etc, those systems are very effective in proper monitoring of indivduals cells resistance and proper balancing.

Anyhow a few notes there.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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12-29-2010 12:47 AM  7 years agoPost 1699
Mike Fortin

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Nitro: A 1 1/4 gallon jug with integrated electric fuel pump, On board glow igniter and an Align starter with integrated battery.

Very simple and straight forward.

If you have a portable setup like OICU812 has then it makes things much easier. You simply need to bring all the batteries with you as well as a generator.

The E setup is a bit more than the glow but overall does it really matter.

If you like E then fly E, if you like Nitro, fly Nitro. If your like me and can't decide which is better...fly both.

The pointless bickering is getting old. What's the next debate...flybar of flybarless?

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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12-29-2010 12:56 AM  7 years agoPost 1700
YuNoHavinStock!

rrNovice

riverton, ut

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against electric at all. If you get 70-80 cycles with 20c packs on a 12s 600 it's cheaper to run than a nitro 50.
Nitro is easy with a drill to start, onboard glow, and a cheap hand pump. No less gear to deal with than lipos and chargers. I think where I fall short with electric is not taking proper care of lipos as you stated. I don't have a high-tech charger, flying in summer heat, and occasionally leaving packs charged for a week decreases the amount of cycles I will probably get.

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