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12-23-2010 03:52 AM  9 years ago
Blades345

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FL

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You guys talk to much!When u don't feel like soaring through the air with a plane, beat it into submission w/ a heli!
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12-23-2010 04:02 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I've got blisters on my fingers.Team POP Secret
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12-23-2010 04:11 AM  9 years ago
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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I really think you are wrong about that, but time will tell...
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12-23-2010 04:36 AM  9 years ago
g_dmitry

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Edmonton, AB, Canada

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Heard they spent alot of time helping others there both nitro and electric with vbars and tuning helis, to me that does not sound like someone who is against nitro or against helping someone and contributing to the hobby?
+1.

Shawn is one of the most helpful guys in that hobby. He helps others because he likes to do that, no because he is a rep. At last IRCHA he had probably 5 flights. Rest of the time he was helping other. He was like a rockstar at the IRCHA. Shawn is not as technical as some top pilots, but try to stand near him during his flying. He will scare the crap out of you. He is aggressive and fast. He never gives credits himself for flying though, but always does that for everybody else.

At forums things can go wrong very easily. In real life you probably would be his best friends.
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12-23-2010 06:07 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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At forums things can go wrong very easily. In real life you probably would be his best friends.
Just for the record, I have no personal concerns at all. Lively debate is just that. Mix with a little fun. Hope I come across that way. If not...please hit me in the head. Not too hard please.

And, it is funny you say the statement above. I have not met him but I have at times thought of Shawn as...well...abrupt....but of my face to face friends, my best is...well...rather abrupt. Hope I'm not out of line there Shawn.

Anyway, I don't cement my thoughts about someone here...certainly not in a Nitro vs E thread. Just so the record is straight.
Team POP Secret
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12-23-2010 06:17 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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I really think you are wrong about that, but time will tell...
I actually hope so.

You know, micro nuclear reactors are the latest rage in the energy department. Got me pretty excited...until I realized what their idea of "micro" was.
Team POP Secret
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12-23-2010 07:42 AM  9 years ago
philip 01

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ft worth

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If those spikes you see all over logging graphs were the actual rises and spikes of torque hammered through the actual gear train I believe it would tear a heli apart.
yes, it does. tim jones 'beast' as one example.

i have a 550e that spikes 5000+ watts and 229.7 amps on 6s packs.

it can not use a stock 550 main gear. strips it right out. have to use 700 nitro main gears. much taller and stronger.

it can not use the stock tail drive gears. strips them right out with backlash, no backlash, slight preload, whatever. can't handle the torque.

trying a belt now.

i've owned 30's, 60's, 90's, 450's, 500's, both nitro and electric.

the power to weight of my 550e is well above my fury extreme .90 i had and it was a rocket.

of course my flight times are 4:30 but that's ok with me.

we'll eventually see better batteries with longer flight times.

at the moment i like the convenience and power of electric. could end up with another nitro at one point but give me 8 minutes with the setup i have and i'd probably never own another nitro.
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12-23-2010 10:42 AM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Same here.I like them both for their own reasons.

I'm not someones investigator either.
I asked a man some questions and he answered.That just means he's OK with me knowing.Not the world.

There are so many thousands of videos and stuff out there,we don't need any more info anyway.

Fly what you like.
If you really want to know what each is like,try to find a way to try it personally and stop spreading trash info all over the http://WWW.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-23-2010 11:35 AM  9 years ago
blazen

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California

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You don't even use 1/2 the available energy (I think modern cars are around 25-30% to take a guess)
25-30% Not even close! By the time the power hits the road its closer to 13%.
87% of the available energy in gasoline goes right out the tail pipe as well as into the radiator and drive train. Think thats bad? Things get really ugly once you factor in rolling and wind resistance.

Same thing for electricity. By the time the electrons hit your wall socket only about 13% of the available energy in the fuel used to generate it was extracted.

It even gets worse once you factor in the efficiency of the product you plug into the wall. For example Linear power supply's are about 50-60% efficient so now we are down to only 6% of the available energy being actually used.

That 13% number is interesting. Even the human body is only capable of extracting about 13% of the available energy in most foods. Whats more interesting is that it's not consistent with humans.

While one person might be able to extract 100calories from a serving of Tuna fish another person might be able to extract 150 calories.

Its now believed that a lot of people who are overweight simply have much more effective digestive systems. They can extract more energy out of the same foods. On the other hand people who are skinny, You know the type that can eat all day long and not gain a pound. Those people actually have defective digestive systems because their body's extract even less of the available energy.

Believe it or not they have actually done clinical studies and measured the amount of energy left in human waste.
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12-23-2010 01:01 PM  9 years ago
busyflyin

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Cadillac, MI USA

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I own both..
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12-23-2010 04:19 PM  9 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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measured the amount of energy left in human waste.
Sounds like a good one for Mike Rowe.
Team POP Secret
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12-23-2010 04:32 PM  9 years ago
BobOD

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we'll eventually see better batteries with longer flight times.
This is a big assumption. How much more is possably with the technology. Rate has been increasing and thus flight times decreasing as people use the power faster. What does a capacity to weight graph look like over the past several years?

Also, if you are willing to admit that the nitro flys longer just as most nitro guys are willing to admit that electric flies harder, what makes you think nitro could not be reconfigured to fly harder?
In other words, what is preventing a nitro that does 8 minutes at power X from being reconfigured to do 4 min flights at power level 2X?

The only thing I can think of is weight as the engine has to get bigger. But, the Nitro is already lighter than the electric...roughly speaking.
Team POP Secret
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12-23-2010 04:38 PM  9 years ago
g_dmitry

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Edmonton, AB, Canada

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There are technologies already which allow to make batteries with very high energy density (10+ times higher than current lipos has). It is just mater of time when they will hit mass production. It could be years, but it will come.
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12-23-2010 06:41 PM  9 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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In order to clear things up I'm back with fact from Tareq. This information was asked yesterday from Gorgin who lives in UAE and flies with Tareq regularly and his personal friend.

In order to provide fact not fiction here is Tareqs setup on his personal Fusion.

Re: Also

Hi Shawn,

Head speed is 2100
Packs: 3000mah 6s 35c x2
100hv kontronik ESC
+- 13 pitch
8.4v all around including tail
He can fly his crazy routine for 4 minutes.
"For sure Fusion has more power" is what he said!

Let me know if you need anything else.

Regards,
G

Got EDGE?

Quote 
OICU812 wrote on 12-23-2010 02:11 AM:
Hi Gorgin4325

Would be nice to know what tareq considers more powerfull velocity 50 or fusion etc

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins..
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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12-23-2010 06:41 PM  9 years ago
BobOD

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What technologies? What stage of development?

You know...it also depends on your age. If you're 20ish, you may be likely to see the capacity double. If you're 50ish, you might be better to investigate what you can get out of what's available NOW.

I don't think the capacity has doubled in the last 10 years. Yes, they are more than twice as good but the capacity/gram has been fairly constant. Just a "wild assumption" on my part. I have not really studied it...and am not going to. I ask you to do that and show me.
Team POP Secret
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12-23-2010 06:44 PM  9 years ago
g_dmitry

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Edmonton, AB, Canada

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4 minutest is good flight time for such light (small batteries) setup.
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12-23-2010 06:48 PM  9 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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That said he is running small packs. Most comparables in this size electric are 3300-3800 mah meaning even Tareq could see 5 mins easily on his crazy flying what does this prove?

1.) Lons comment of Tareq "killing packs in 3minutes" is and was BS and assumption as expected and nothing more.

2.) Mcrackins comment of me flying perhaps twice as long means I or anyone else that is assumed to not be able to push a heli should see 7-8 minutes on the "small" lipo pack setup? Maybe Mcrackin and Lon 10 minutes? <<shameless plug and PURE assumption

3.) Note Tareqs words on his comparisons of the Fusion and Velocity 50

Conclusion, my apologies to those in which may have felt I was abrupt. Such debates to me must be fact and not assumption or speculation in order to help "your" side and views. Don't want to be quoted, attacked as you feel it? Then speak truth and fact and keep it real and there is no issue, at least not with me.
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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12-23-2010 06:52 PM  9 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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That's it for me finally the facts are there those who wish to speculate or assume further may continue at risk of sounding foolish. May you who remain enjoy the thread and debate but keep it real, Merry Christmas.

Shawn
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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12-23-2010 07:10 PM  9 years ago
g_dmitry

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Edmonton, AB, Canada

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What technologies? What stage of development?

You know...it also depends on your age. If you're 20ish, you may be likely to see the capacity double. If you're 50ish, you might be better to investigate what you can get out of what's available NOW.

I don't think the capacity has doubled in the last 10 years. Yes, they are more than twice as good but the capacity/gram has been fairly constant. Just a "wild assumption" on my part. I have not really studied it...and am not going to. I ask you to do that and show me.
Yes, you are false in your assumptions. Check battery history. There are lots of info on that subject on internet. Density improved from 30Whl to 300Whl in last 20 years or so.

There were few different posts on defferent heli forums with links to articles about battery technologies (do not want to spent time looking for them again). Some of them were claiming even 20+ times higher density comparing to regular LiIon.

Just one example of technologies being developed:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4237756
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12-23-2010 07:22 PM  9 years ago
Ravenhyper50

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Canada's Capital

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Wow
The results? An energy storage capacity of more than 4200 milliampere hours per gram
A battery to power my X5 would only be one gram

I think the heli manufacture will have to redesign some machines.

Think about it, for people that want the lightest fastest heli and that don't need more than 4-5min flights, would want the ultimate power to weight ratio.

Imagine drag racing Rc helicopters with this new battery tech

Cant wait,
Raven
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