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06-03-2011 03:46 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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Ron, check your calcs please.

One case you have two batteries each at 30 amps producing 750 watts each. Total = 1500 watts

In the other case you have two batteries each at 30 amps producing 750 watts each. Total = 1500 watts

We're considering two systems with the same cells (one wired 6s2p and the other 12s1p) so it is a valid comparison for 6s vs 12s.

Can't get more basic than that.
Team POP Secret
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06-03-2011 04:01 AM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Rogman88
I'm still wondering how properly done tic tocs are harder on a system than crappy ones with poor collective management.
I was talking about doing consistent 4pt tictoc's where your keeping the heli loaded the whole time..
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06-03-2011 04:12 AM  9 years ago
snjbird

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Yes but look at the power, watts equals power yes? I don't need to run 2400 HS. My heli is making 4500 watts at 2040
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06-03-2011 05:02 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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Good point SNJ but it looks like you are peaking similar power levels while Lon's is running a higher average power level. You can't go by the average number reported in Lon's because his includes dead time. But it does look like his average power draw is higher than yours. A lot higher. Which happens to be consistant with a heli flown with a higher head speed with less agressive pitching versus one flown at a lower HS with more agression.

Easilly explains the higher temps.

And then, none of it shows what is actually comming off the pinion.
Team POP Secret
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06-03-2011 05:46 AM  9 years ago
g_dmitry

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As for wiring, yes, cumlative...but significant...NO.
As for the motor, I see 6S designed motors with the same efficiency as ones designed for 12s. So, if we beleive those numbers, then how are you saying that the eff at 12s is so much more than 6s. This does not add up.
LOL

Please do not do such wrong assumptions about motor efficiency related to number of cells.
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06-03-2011 06:01 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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LOL

Please do not do such wrong assumptions about motor efficiency related to number of cells.
What does that mean? I made no assumptions on motor efficiencies there???

Would be much more productive if you answered the simple question. I'm just seeking the truth here.

But, this is really not the place for it. This is an N vs e thread.
Team POP Secret
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06-03-2011 06:33 AM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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What snjbird posted is what I was trying to say...
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06-03-2011 06:56 AM  9 years ago
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

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Rogman88 Great demonstration of nitro power clown!!! You are right. My Logo wants no part of that thing!

I'm still wondering how properly done tic tocs are harder on a system than crappy ones with poor collective management.
thats normal mode idleup is gonna be insane.
and ill be tryin my first tictocs real soon.

im sure you wish me luck.
Insha Allah made in america
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06-03-2011 07:04 AM  9 years ago
Band1086

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The Actro 32-3 E motor has a 555kv rating. On a 700E with 8S 5000 batteries, and a 15T pinion, I can achieve 2140 HS. Same heli and motor, with a 10T pinion and 12S 5000's I can achieve the same HS. Because of the increased watts available, I can either increase flight time or shaft power. In a hover, I wouldn't be able to tell much difference at the same HS, but would get a lot better flight time. But if I started pushing the heli hard, I would have a lot better power. So, in conclusion, higher voltage, because of the increased energy available, will yield better flight time, or higher power, but in dynamic testing, I've found that I love the power so much, that is what I use the extra energy for...and what power it has!!!
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06-03-2011 08:07 AM  9 years ago
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

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woo hoo what have i gotten my self into lol

Watch at YouTube

Insha Allah made in america
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06-03-2011 01:12 PM  9 years ago
snjbird

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Lon did you save any of your graphs? I would like to see if we could "zoom in" on one and get a better idea of the averages you were pulling.
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06-03-2011 01:24 PM  9 years ago
BobOD

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Band, I can't dispute your experience so I am not doing so. But it seems others have a different experience and I can't dispute theirs either.

BUT, what you say does not quite add up. The torque a motor outputs is directly related to the current supply. A 6s-2p made of the exact same cells as a 12s-1p will be capable of twice the current. So when you get on it, it should be able to give better torque.
Actually, the truth is, the same cells set up in the 2 different configurations will be able to deliver the exact same power and at the exact same rate. Power is equally related to voltage as it is to current. The only way it could give a greatly different result is if the efficiency was greatly different. But, when you go look for the efficiency, you can always find a motor for 6s that has an efficiency quite similar to one being used at 12s. The ESC should be less efficient because its limitation is related to dv/dt. Wiring and connectors are very minor losses. And the battery resistance does not matter as they are under the same condition. What else is there?

Very curious indeed.
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06-03-2011 01:55 PM  9 years ago
snjbird

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It is not curious, it is simple... Because the 12S motors are more powerful! Just adding the numbers up and posting hypothetical theories, is easy enough, but if you look you can find that in the same motor line, the motors that are wound for higher cell counts ARE more powerful!

6S motors from other manufactures are better, or not so much better. In a direct comparison of the 4025 series motors, the 550 a 12S motor, is the power winner by 650 watts VS the 1100, a 6/8S motor. Add that, with the need to pull 100 amps to achieve 2200 watts vs the 550 65 amps to achieve 2850 watts and that's why temps are lower. more power, less temp, easier on batteries= more smiles for HV guys!
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06-03-2011 02:33 PM  9 years ago
Rogman88

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West Monroe, LA

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Here is the difference, the first is one of Lon's 6S flights, the second a 10S flight, the watt reading is pretty similar, temps, and current are pretty different.
If I can get the same power with less temps and current then that's the direction I would go (and did). As I've read, any increase in heat is wasted energy to the power system. So why not use higher voltage and less amps. It's easier on the ESC to have less amps blowing through it too so I've read.
High Voltage just works better
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06-03-2011 02:35 PM  9 years ago
Rogman88

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People in my area do not get over 50 good cycle's with Turnigy's on 10 or 12S setup's flying them hard.
Is this really true? Like when you said...

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch the 2nd video that Rog posted then watch this one.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The second vid was with good batteries and unboggable. Then the sentence right after Lon post's his vid I see this.

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can clearly hear the 12S setup loosing RPM when loaded while the 6S setup keep's a consistant 2250rpm through the whole 4min flight,might loose 50rpm ..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My second vid didn't sound like it was losing rpm but the heli could take everything I threw at it and more as it was the good packs.

Then I see
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Try reading before posting--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and then...
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I said bogging in the first video,not the 2nd...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High Voltage just works better
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06-03-2011 02:54 PM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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snjbird Lon did you save any of your graphs? I would like to see if we could "zoom in" on one and get a better idea of the averages you were pulling.
These?

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06-03-2011 02:57 PM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Rogman88,
That's what I said right?Is anything you said true ..
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06-03-2011 03:03 PM  9 years ago
Rogman88

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That's what I said right?Is anything you said true ..
You lied Lon!

You deliberately stated that you were refering to my second vid...argued about it for a while then go back and say you were refering to the first vid! I wouldn't have even debated you on the bogging if I'd known you were referring to the first vid!

If anyone questions truth, many more would (and do) question you, not me.
High Voltage just works better
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06-03-2011 03:21 PM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Im talking about Turnigy's not lasting so what are you talking about?I answered this question below
Rogman88
People in my area do not get over 50 good cycle's with Turnigy's on 10 or 12S setup's flying them hard.
Is this really true? Like when you said...
Go play game's with someone else.
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06-03-2011 03:23 PM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Also,
The first video bogged and the 2nd didn't,what do you not understand about that?I said it 3-4 time's and you keep coming back whining.
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