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05-31-2011 05:16 AM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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rexxigpilot
Something wrong for sure and im going with tuning skills .Lot's of good pilot's doing hard 3D with a OS 50 Hyper and getting more than 6 1/2 min's
Nah, it's not tuning skills. Been in RC for many years and use to be very successful in various forms of pylon racing. You can't compete with a poorly tuned engine.

Your 600N was kind of weak in that last video in my opinion. I think it was the heat. Your tune sounded good. Like I said before, it was 96°F in the shade on Saturday here in Tallahassee. The heat index was around 110°. Our heat humidy and solar radiation in Florida make it very hard on normally aspirated engines to make good power during all but the winter months. Maybe this is why so many of us southern boys have gone electric.
LOL,it's not bogging but you say it's weak haha.Running it rich getting close to 7 min's of flight time (normal is 8 min's) for a reason on top of 11 1/2 degrees of pitch .Flying in my first FF in 4 day's so kinda want everything slowed down as im already going to be nervous.If I feel good about flying infront of everyone,i'll turn both needles back in 3 click's.As hot as it was outside,I can hold my finger on the back plate over 10 sec's so yeah,it has way more power.As for weak,that would mean the heli is bogging and dropping down which it isn't..
Anyway's im not buying the whole "that's why people are going electric" in your area ..Seen many video's of Hyper 50 in the OBL getting the crap beat out of them worse than I can my OS 55 as it is now..How is it that Bert K,Mike F and all them other guy's beat the living piss out of 50 size heli's but you have all the issue's with your's?Collective management can't help make a weak running motor rip like they do..This was taken September 8th which about mid summer (little past) and HOT as hell in FL.How is it that he's beating the living crap out of this 50 in all that heat but you can't make power with your's?

Watch at YouTube

rexxigpilot
Been in RC for many years and use to be very successful in various forms of pylon racing.
Just so you know,that has nothing what so ever to do with heli motor's and they don't tune the same,maybe that's why you have issue's making power with a nitro.You can take a plane and stop in mid flight to see if it's lean or not.You can't do 3-4 hard climb out's and go into a hover and check the mid or fast hurricane's,funnle's,tictoc's ect... and go right into a hover.<--- you have to do that after tuning the high needle but once you tune the mid,you have to go back and tune the high again because the mid effect's the high needle..
Ive been tuning land/water nitro motor's well over 8 year's but it's not the same as heli's.No RC nitro motor tune's the same..
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05-31-2011 05:24 AM  9 years ago
rexxigpilot

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Well, actually Bob I did not consider temperature in my efficiency calculations. I took everthing to be at STP (except the fuel while burning of course). Now, if I did consider temperature, the calcs. would clearly demonstrate that nitro loses significant power due to adiabatic heating. Thermodynamics clearly show that in a non-isothermal condition an increase in air temperature would decrease the air density and the nitro engine would not be able to take in as much oxygen. Therefore, the engine makes less power. Electrics are much less affected by changes in air temp.

The only way to increase the power of a glow motor without increasing its size is to burn more fuel or increase the efficiency at which the engine operates. You can increase the nitro content to increase the fuel consumption (nitro is an oxidizer as well as fuel), but that will increase fuel cost and decrease flight time. You can also use either a turbo-charger or super-charger to stuff more fuel air charge into the cylinder, but again at the expense more fuel consumption and less flight time. We all know how important that is to Bob.

No, the only way for nitro to survive is to increase the engine efficiency to be as powerful as electric, decrease the vibrations so our helis aren't beat to pieces (remember the OS Wankel) and make engines that don't corrode so easily from the fuel they use. Otherwise, it is an all electric future.
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05-31-2011 05:26 AM  9 years ago
turboomni

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How is it that he's beating the living crap out of this 50 in all that heat but you can't make power with your's?
40% nitro?
Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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05-31-2011 05:43 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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Oh man, that was an awesome post Lon.
He sure spanked that thing and that sun sure do look HOT! And that was only a measly little 55. Lame little thing. Shoot, it even sounds small.

Short flight though...but, did you see how much fuel was left.

Wow, you guys sure have turned me around. Comming from being a total e fan, I have to admit, Nitro is sure on TOP!

Only top electric is on for me is "top of the bookcase". LOL

I spent about $800 on batteries this year and have maybe 10 flights on them. I think next year I might just let the e's be ornaments.
Team POP Secret
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05-31-2011 05:46 AM  9 years ago
rexxigpilot

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LOL,it's not bogging but you say it's weak haha.Running it rich getting close to 7 min's of flight time (normal is 8 min's) for a reason on top of 11 1/2 degrees of pitch .Flying in my first FF in 4 day's so kinda want everything slowed down as im already going to be nervous.If I feel good about flying infront of everyone,i'll turn both needles back in 3 click's.As hot as it was outside,I can hold my finger on the back plate over 10 sec's so yeah,it has way more power.As for weak,that would mean the heli is bogging and dropping down which it isn't..
Anyway's im not buying the whole "that's why people are going electric" in your area ..Seen many video's of Hyper 50 in the OBL getting the crap beat out of them worse than I can my OS 55 as it is now..How is it that Bert K,Mike F and all them other guy's beat the living piss out of 50 size heli's but you have all the issue's with your's?Collective management can't help make a weak running motor rip like they do..This was taken September 8th which about mid summer (little past) and HOT as hell in FL.How is it that he's beating the living crap out of this 50 in all that heat but you can't make power with your's?
Come on now Lon. That engine of yours was a ring ting tinging when you landed. It was not rich! I advise you not to turn in your needles unless it is even hotter than when you flew in the video or the altitude is much higher. Do a check on air mass density before you burn up your engine.

As for your engine not being weak, your heli was dropping out of the sky doing tic-tocs. Or are you saying you just have poor collective management skills?

Bert's video did not demonstrate all out power. Bert's flying style is very choppy smack which doesn't need a ton of power. He uses the momentum of the blades to do his hard maneuvers. Just like Tareq.

Anyway, I don't want to rattle you before a FF. Just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy having spectators there to watch you fly live. I don't care if I have 0 or 1,000 watching me fly. I get into my own zone and just do what I do. I don't even know they exist till I'm done flying. I'm mostly startled when I hear clapping or people say, "nice flying" afterwards. Hopefully you will be in a zone too at your FF.
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05-31-2011 05:57 AM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Come on now Lon. That engine of yours was a ring ting tinging when you landed.
Ok,now I know your screwing with me..
As for your engine not being weak, your heli was dropping out of the sky doing tic-tocs. Or are you saying you just have poor collective management skills?
Really ?

Watch at YouTube

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05-31-2011 07:23 AM  9 years ago
BobOD

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Another nice vid Lon.
On a side note, I can't help but think....I've seen a lot of your "e" videos and you seem to fly very similar. The only significant difference is your Nitro vids are way longer. Why is that? Is it that you don't feel like flying long when you're flying an electric? I'm curious is all. I can't understand why you fly so many times at over 8 minutes but always so much less when you were doing electric.

Bob

PS: Good orientation skills you got there. It's a pleasure to watch.
Team POP Secret
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05-31-2011 12:11 PM  9 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Another nice vid Lon.
On a side note, I can't help but think....I've seen a lot of your "e" videos and you seem to fly very similar. The only significant difference is your Nitro vids are way longer. Why is that? Is it that you don't feel like flying long when you're flying an electric? I'm curious is all. I can't understand why you fly so many times at over 8 minutes but always so much less when you were doing electric.

Bob

PS: Good orientation skills you got there. It's a pleasure to watch.
Bob....maybe you should propose

It seems to me that every time someone complains that nitros are not powerful enough, someone says it is tuning or bad collective management.
Good thing there are e helis....where you don't have to concentrate on either of those things
So BO please explain your theory. It seems to me that you think a heli flies longer and has LESS HP, it is "whoopin" a heli that has significantly more HP and flies shorter???? BTW...you coming to IRCHA??? Wanna put some $$$ up that says my Logo 600 VBAR will stomp your .90 powered .50?
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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05-31-2011 02:58 PM  9 years ago
rexxigpilot

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Yeah Bob, where is the video of this monster 90 powered 50 heli? My guess is it would fall apart from all the vibration, maybe even crack the frames.

I'm with Ron on his Logo 600 beating your 90/50 chimera. Let's face the facts. Few people who can actually fly are using nitro anymore due to the low power compared to electric. Except for a few electric models like the Logo, flight time is longer on nitro. Anyone who is still at the early learning stage (no matter how long they have been at it) will probably like nitro so they can hover for a loooong time. Most of us find that kind of boring.
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05-31-2011 04:02 PM  9 years ago
Rogman88

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LOL,it's not bogging but you say it's weak haha.
I may be wrong, but I think he may be referring to that though it wasn't bogging, the heli really wasn't flying and popping around as fast as say, Bert K's trex 600 vid. I think you fly the crap out of what you have to work with. It's just not turning up with the power of Berts' or Matt Botos .50 sized helis so just not as impressive from a "see how powerful my heli is" perspective.

Now the old Protos vids...whole nother story...
High Voltage just works better
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05-31-2011 04:14 PM  9 years ago
Band1086

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The only significant difference is your Nitro vids are way longer. Why is that? Is it that you don't feel like flying long when you're flying an electric? I'm curious is all. I can't understand why you fly so many times at over 8 minutes but always so much less when you were doing electric.
Good stir Bob, but, as they say, "that dog don't hunt". When I/we are talking about intense flights with an E, we are not talking about some 6S 600(worst case E scenario) that barely beats a 55 power wise, we're talking about nearly any other E combo, esp the 700 sized. Your twisting is keen my friend, but anyone who actually knows can see it for what it is. Again, nice try though.
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05-31-2011 04:40 PM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Rogman88
LOL,it's not bogging but you say it's weak haha.
I may be wrong, but I think he may be referring to that though it wasn't bogging, the heli really wasn't flying and popping around as fast as say, Bert K's trex 600 vid. I think you fly the crap out of what you have to work with. It's just not turning up with the power of Berts' or Matt Botos .50 sized helis so just not as impressive from a "see how powerful my heli is" perspective.

Now the old Protos vids...whole nother story...
Turn your headspeed down some and run 11 1/2 degree's of pitch,you'll understand then..
As for the Protos.That's a $50.00 dollar crash vs my 600's $200.00 dollar crash so I respect the 600 a little more...
Band1086
The only significant difference is your Nitro vids are way longer. Why is that? Is it that you don't feel like flying long when you're flying an electric? I'm curious is all. I can't understand why you fly so many times at over 8 minutes but always so much less when you were doing electric.
Good stir Bob, but, as they say, "that dog don't hunt". When I/we are talking about intense flights with an E, we are not talking about some 6S 600(worst case E scenario) that barely beats a 55 power wise, we're talking about nearly any other E combo, esp the 700 sized. Your twisting is keen my friend, but anyone who actually knows can see it for what it is. Again, nice try though.
Before guessing like alway's,buy the setup I had so you know what it's like.Monkey's aren't that smart but can clearly see my 600E has WAY more power than my nitro,not just barely beat's it .Like bob said,I flew both the same and no different..It's funny how all the electric fan's like Ron (no pun) and a few other's say a STOCK 600E make's more power than a 50 size nitro.Your saying a setup that make's way more power than a stock 600E barely beat's a 50 size nitro.As a matter of fact,you have no ideal what either setup is like ......
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05-31-2011 04:48 PM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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the heli really wasn't flying and popping around as fast as say, Bert K's trex 600 vid. I think you fly the crap out of what you have to work with. It's just not turning up with the power of Berts' or Matt Botos .50 sized helis so just not as impressive from a "see how powerful my heli is" perspective.
I see what your saying and your right.Not trying to beat my heli like that because clearly I can't so no reason to run it all out.It's setup for my flying style.Once I need more,I know it has it..
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05-31-2011 05:20 PM  9 years ago
Band1086

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As a matter of fact,you have no ideal what either setup is like ......
Wrong again Lon, I've flown both stock and better than stock. And yes, the better than stock has a little more power, but 6S is what it is, and with a 600mm disc it doesn't do that well...anyone who has had both except you apparently, will say that. And the 6S 600 doesn't begin to compare to the 700 size ships, or even higher voltage 600's, it's much more like a glow powered heli.
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05-31-2011 05:45 PM  9 years ago
turboomni

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https://rc.runryder.com/t648324p1/

This happened AFTER removing them from the charger when charging was complete and in Lipo bags.
Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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05-31-2011 05:51 PM  9 years ago
Rogman88

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Don't try to change the subject turbo. We need to stay on track here stating that Nitros are weak and any weak electric is because the setup is funamentally wrong...ie 6S on a 600 sized heli...
Turn your headspeed down some and run 11 1/2 degree's of pitch,you'll understand then..
That would suck. I like power. I like to only fly 4.5 minutes. I'll leave the weaker helis to pilots who like to fly them...Like Bob...
High Voltage just works better
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05-31-2011 06:04 PM  9 years ago
turboomni

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Don't try to change the subject turbo. We need to stay on track here stating that Nitros are weak and any weak electric is because the setup is funamentally wrong...ie 6S on a 600 sized heli...
LOL! Ok. Geeze being a lowly gasser pilot I wouldn't say either Lipo or Nitro is weak,,it would depend on the heli's setup and what it is equipped with.
Man some of the videos posted here are very impressive indeed.
That one nitro video looked like he was doing the dieing chicken dance but only in the air!! I couldn't keep up with it.
Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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05-31-2011 06:04 PM  9 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Band1086
As a matter of fact,you have no ideal what either setup is like ......
Wrong again Lon, I've flown both stock and better than stock. And yes, the better than stock has a little more power, but 6S is what it is, and with a 600mm disc it doesn't do that well...anyone who has had both except you apparently, will say that. And the 6S 600 doesn't begin to compare to the 700 size ships, or even higher voltage 600's, it's much more like a glow powered heli.
You are so clueless and lie way to much to make yourself look like you know it all,very sad .I know for a fact that you NEVER flown/owned the 6S setup I had and noone really knew about them until I bought it 2-3 month's ago and started posting video's.When I asked about it,not one person has used it.Anyone that knows anything about electric's know's once you start making really good power,you have to upgrade the gear's.This is what happend when I tried turning thing's up and it had ALOT more in it than this ..

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

It take's good power to strip main gear after main gear,do you understand that?People that flew this heli said it make's power between a 8/10S setup so stop guessing and start talking about what you know.Maybe post some fact's because all you do is talk and guess...Before you start guessing and trying to say my gear mesh or something was off,I never had this happen on any of my electric's until I built this setup..So yeah,your WRONG and never flown what I have...

Your right about one this,a 50/90 size heli isn't the same .Im not talking about a 90 size heli am I?Talk,talk,talk and not a lick of any kind of fact's/proof from you in every single post.
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05-31-2011 06:13 PM  9 years ago
Band1086

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OK Lon, whatever you say...the great BS(er) says it so it must be true!
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05-31-2011 06:14 PM  9 years ago
Wave

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