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HomeOff Topics › Nitro vs. Electric
05-11-2011 08:00 PM  7 years agoPost 4361
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Power system efficiency and energy density of power source has nothing to do with each other. You lost in your own definitions LOL.
You can choose to consider only what serves your cause if you like, but if you honestly believe that these two things are not closely related, then you truly are going with blinders on.

Efficiency is used/potential and is not only pertinent to power. For example, if you were able to double the density efficiency mah/g, it does not take much to realize that would have a pretty significant result. It could even have an effect on power efficiency because you could be flying with less weight...and wasting less time and energy landing to change batteries. ;p

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 08:01 PM  7 years agoPost 4362
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Shut up Rog.

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 08:07 PM  7 years agoPost 4363
Rogman88

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West Monroe, LA

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Nice work SNJ! How much per 5 pack?

I can feel the love Bob! LOL!

High Voltage just works better

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05-11-2011 08:15 PM  7 years agoPost 4364
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Damn, even OS has seen the light. They too recognize the popular shift of interest - so should we. I've spoken with several pilots who've purged their fleet of nitro machines with reckless abandonment. Damn, I'll say it again.

_Sam B_

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05-11-2011 08:16 PM  7 years agoPost 4365
snjbird

rrKey Veteran

Kissimmee, Florida- USA

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This is the killer part! $44.00 delivered! So the total to build one 40C 4400 10S stick is $95.00, including deans, HS, a balance extension, and, some other misc supplies

That is why I am so pleased with my setup, I am getting 10+ minutes, granted, it is at 1900RPM, but for what I am doing right now, it's perfect! I do fly some 3D too, and I have the timer set at 5:30 running 2200 and 7 minutes flying at 2000. I have had Logo friends for many years, and I never believed them about the flight time, but they were right, some how this machine stretches the flight timer by 20 or 30% over the Erexs!

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05-11-2011 08:21 PM  7 years agoPost 4366
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Btw, SNJ, that was a very polite way to end your post. That does not belong in this thread.

Just kidding.

And just for a little refresher, as I stated long ago, if I had to choose between Nitro and electric, I would grudgingly choose electric. But, it would not be long before I got bored of that and would want to trade the electric for Nitro. No winner in my mind. One wins some categories and the other wins in others. So, rather, both winners.

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 08:22 PM  7 years agoPost 4367
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Efficiency is used/potential and is not only pertinent to power. For example, if you were able to double the density efficiency mah/g, it does not take much to realize that would have a pretty significant result. It could even have an effect on power efficiency because you could be flying with less weight...and wasting less time and energy landing to change batteries. ;p
That refers to the efficiency of the system (heli), not the power system itself. The power system efficiency will not change but the efficiency of the heli will

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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05-11-2011 08:28 PM  7 years agoPost 4368
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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How about OS going electric?

http://www.os-engines.co.jp/110501/

Had to repost here. Sorry.

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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05-11-2011 08:29 PM  7 years agoPost 4369
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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They know what is to come

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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05-11-2011 08:32 PM  7 years agoPost 4370
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Seems to me for many electric guys that as the discharge capacity and Mah of the lipo's for the same size goes up , many of you just add more demands to the system like more pitch,more headspeed, more cyclic pitch for obviously more performance. No wonder the flight times are still low. Would it be safe to conclude that by doing this is why flight times remain the same if not worse at times even with the latest Lipo's?
With lipos today compared to when they were used say on the original Align 600.. If you used the same entry level motor that came with the kit but used todays better Lipo's what would the flight time difference be between the old style and the newest packs?
Just curious.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-11-2011 08:47 PM  7 years agoPost 4371
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Turbo,
It is simple. Find a flight that is just like the one I keep referring to. Allan Z. flying the T700N Flybarless. Great solid flying for a full 8 minutes. Find an electric that can do that precisely.

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 09:00 PM  7 years agoPost 4372
BobOD

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New York- USA

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That refers to the efficiency of the system (heli), not the power system itself.
Efficiency of the use of storage potential has nothing to do with the power system eh???

Look, I am sorry it bothers you that electrics may only use about 14% of their potential storage capacity.

But, again, it only brings into question the relevance of comparing electric storage/motor efficiency to chemical energy available in a fuel. What is so much more important at the end of the day is the fact that Nitro can produce a greater sum of power in a single flight. Yes, heli and power system considered as whole.

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 09:16 PM  7 years agoPost 4373
BobOD

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New York- USA

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glow power has been around since the 40's or 50's, that's about 60+ years.
The idea of energy storage was conceived probably thousands of years before that of the production of energy.

I'll stop at NOTHING.

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 09:24 PM  7 years agoPost 4374
g_dmitry

rrApprentice

Edmonton, AB, Canada

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But, again, it only brings into question the relevance of comparing electric storage/motor efficiency to chemical energy available in a fuel. What is so much more important at the end of the day is the fact that Nitro can produce a greater sum of power in a single flight. Yes, heli and power system considered as whole.
Looks like you do not really understand some of the definitions, and use wrong names for some concepts. You are substituting some values with other absolutely irrelevant values and make most of the people do like that .

First you talk about power system efficiency then you multiply that efficiency by storage efficiency. What is that? Is that a new power system efficiency? NO, but for you it is. What kind of myth you broke then? Give correct names for right things.

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05-11-2011 09:33 PM  7 years agoPost 4375
Rogman88

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West Monroe, LA

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Looks like you do not really understand some of the definitions, and use wrong names for some concepts.
Take that Bob!!!

High Voltage just works better

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05-11-2011 09:33 PM  7 years agoPost 4376
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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gdmitry,

You're kidding right. Read closely please.

used/potential

Who does not understand what?

So, moving off this overdone topic, who would like to know some of the factors that are not being considered when calculating brushless motor efficiency? (yes, I'll even stick to power in/power out so we don't get all confused.)

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 09:34 PM  7 years agoPost 4377
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Take that Bob!!!
NEVER!

Team POP Secret

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05-11-2011 11:44 PM  7 years agoPost 4378
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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I'm still LOL @ Rog pointing out Bobs tuitty fruity comment!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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05-11-2011 11:46 PM  7 years agoPost 4379
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Look, I am sorry it bothers you that electrics may only use about 14% of their potential storage capacity.
I just pi55ed myself laughing so hard!

@g_dmitry, Bob tries hard to defend his precious nitros. So he tends to make stuff up and stretch the laws of physics at will. I think he knows he does this, but it is his only defense. What is the saying, "if you can't win the argument with facts, befundle them with BS."

Hey Bob, according to your stretched version of physics, the battery itself is not consumed at all in your power-density-efficiency statements. Therefore, LiPo has a virtual infinite energy density. Measure the mass of the battery before and after the flight. What do you know...it is the same.

Think of the battery as a fuel tank, a heavy one, but an energy storage device nonetheless.

Actually, Bob's statement a few pages back about the huge gains from even a 5% increase in efficiency of nitro is correct (not that this will increase the power any). And turbonni touched on it a bit with his mentioning of the carb smart and electronic control of the engines. The only problem with this is the cost, weight and expense of such a system.

Again, electric rules. There are several new technologies out in the developmental stages that will significantly increase the energy storage capacity of Lithium batteries. Some of these promise a factor of 5 increase. Most won't add any weight either.

Won't be long till OS produces mostly motors and engine prices skyrocket.

@snjbird, welcome to the Logo club. I've been trying to tell people about the long flight time on these birds when using high voltage for years now. I get 7.75 minutes doing fairly hard 3D on 12S, 4Ah packs. These are a bit heavy and I will replace with 3.6Ah packs soon to get some better disc loading. XXtreme is next on my list.

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05-12-2011 01:02 AM  7 years agoPost 4380
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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New O.S. Motor
this has got to be a sign of the future
http://www.os-engines.co.jp/110501/

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