RunRyder RC
WATCH
 427 pages [ <<    <     102     ( 103 )     104     NEXT    >> ] 243018 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeOff Topics › Nitro vs. Electric
01-02-2011 05:33 PM  7 years agoPost 2041
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You won't strip the stock gears with the 90 nitro engine.
Really??? What was the gearing? pitch range?

Higher the RPM...the more pitch before stall.
The engine comes down cold after a flight and its not being worked, it gets loaded to a point and pulls from there.
That's what I will be correcting.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 06:17 PM  7 years agoPost 2042
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There are only a few lipo manufacturers in China. Those packs are then rebranded under the various brand name and generic names
Just something to keep in mind. Even within the same facility or even the same manufacturing process, one thing that could be being done is to segregate the good, bad and ugly. Brand A gets the good, B gets the bad...etc. And they pay accordingly.

I'm not saying this is happening...I don't really know. But, it is a common technique and with the low cost of labor in China, it's a very economical thing to do.

Food for thought is all.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 06:20 PM  7 years agoPost 2043
Wave

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bob, The packs are graded and priced based on the grade.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 07:02 PM  7 years agoPost 2044
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You won't strip the stock gears with the 90 nitro engine.
This is the same thing we experienced with th 12S 600's. I was running 16 degrees of pitch at 2450 HS when drag racing with mod .7 gearing and never broke a gear. The 600 size disc just doesn't put the load on gears. But when I tranfered the same power system to the first 700 N converted to an E(which I did out of the box) I couldn't keep a mod .7 main gear in it for long. Man, we fought that for months, went through a lot of .7 main gears. We made some improvements, but it was mod 1 gearing that finally solved it.
Plus the .90N doesn't have that instant on torque than the E has, so that's easier on the gears too...that's why the TR700N could get away with mod .7 gearing without issue.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 07:34 PM  7 years agoPost 2045
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

BTW Bob, another project that would be an eye opener for you would be to build a 700N with the strongest .90 you can get your hands on. Gear it to run 2250-2400 HS with 710's within it's best power range pulling 15 degrees of pitch(that's what I did with the 700E @ 2250 HS, that thing was a rocket!), and see what a dog it would be. That would be a good test of E vs. N, because 710mm blades grab A LOT of air!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:19 PM  7 years agoPost 2046
Blades345

rrVeteran

FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bob, what pitch and HS are you going to be running on the nitro monster you are building? I am very excited to see the video of it flying and see what kind of power it has. I still don't believe it will have the power of an equal sized electric, but I'm sure it will have some balls to it.

When u don't feel like soaring through the air with a plane, beat it into submission w/ a heli!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:25 PM  7 years agoPost 2047
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Again I owned an OS70. You see how all my machine and machines around me run. Wasn't it you that had the Velocity 50 that sounded like it was going to fall out of the sky because it bogged so much. I cant give you too much grief on that one since it was a YS50 and other than being reliable it doesn't put out the punch.
Yeah,a really sh!ty setup one.Why would you even post that video,it BOGGED DOING ROLLS.Not going to lie like you so yes,my Velocity couldn't do much because the motor wasn't tuned for the 1850RPM headspeed I was trying to run .Heres a 1950RPM headspeed on the same heli/motor,didn't bog down anything like yours .Didn't really start loading it until 2:50 so fast forward if you want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8ECknmKFM

If you wanna make power with that OS 70 in the 600N,use the stock main gear and 22T pinion .Yes,you have to grind the pinion down a tad so gear mesh isn't tight.If you don't wanna do that,slot the frame holes for the starter shaft/motor mount .Im sure after I posted this you'll say thats what you did when you couldn't answer the question when asked about your setup/gearing a page or 2 back.

Stock Trex 600 main gearing
OS 70SZ-H/Hatori SB70
22T pinion
Raptor 60/90 motor mount
Runs awesome and won't bog at 2250RPM's useing 14degrees of pitch and banging it,7+ mins of flight time.

Cut the crank flush with the fan nut so the starter shaft doesn't touch.Motor fits perfect in the motor mount.Stick the motor in the frame with clutch on it and drill the hole in the frame to line up with the top hole on the motor mount.Drill holes in the base plate to line up with the motor mount.Trim the 22T pinion on a bench grinder so gear mesh isn't tight or you can slot the motor mount/starter shaft bearing block frame holes to adjust gear mesh.If you slot the holes in the frame,do the same for the base plate.
Not sure how you did it but thats how I know to do it.It works perfect with killer power and doesn't run anything like yours.Im not being a a-hole or anything but I know for a fact that something wasn't right at all with your setup.

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:27 PM  7 years agoPost 2048
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Blades345
Bob, what pitch and HS are you going to be running on the nitro monster you are building? I am very excited to see the video of it flying and see what kind of power it has. I still don't believe it will have the power of an equal sized electric, but I'm sure it will have some balls to it.
Your right,it won't have the power of a high headspeed 12cell 600E but it will not bog..

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:32 PM  7 years agoPost 2049
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Higher the RPM...the more pitch before stall.
Sure about that?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:36 PM  7 years agoPost 2050
Michaelm0268

rrApprentice

Louisiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I personally fly both because I can't pick just one.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:38 PM  7 years agoPost 2051
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Why would you limit it to a 90? Why not put a bigger motor in it and get the same power of electric...and the same weight too?
And BTW, it's actually a drawback for IC engines. Their power stroke is only a fraction of the rotation so the peak load is much higher. Gears need to be stronger.

Anyway, back on subject.
The T600/91 will have 40 to 50% more available power to weight ratio then the one you gave info on Blades. I'll find a way to draw it.

The disk loading will be about 5% lower.

Weight will be 50-100 grams higher

What other measures are important?

OH man...here we go again.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:40 PM  7 years agoPost 2052
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I personally fly both because I can't pick just one.
My sentiments exactly.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 08:46 PM  7 years agoPost 2053
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And BTW, it's actually a drawback for IC engines. Their power stroke is only a fraction of the rotation so the peak load is much higher. Gears need to be stronger.
Except...that's not how it works in practical application. The 700N would never strip a mod .7 gear, whereas the the 700N with an E power system in it on mod .7 gearing would strip easily...that shows the N NEVER had the power of the E in the same heli. Can you reasonably dispute this?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 09:03 PM  7 years agoPost 2054
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yep, it's called a flywheel or flyweight effect. The weighted crank evens out the peak torque from the nitro engine power pulses. Instantaneous torque is much higher with electric.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 09:14 PM  7 years agoPost 2055
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Of course I could counter that.

There are two different failure modes of a gear.
Shearing the tooth (shear force on the tooth cross section).
Thermal breakdown of the tooth surface.

And, when you converted to electric, you probably used lower tooth count pinions (just a tooth or two can make a surprizing difference ) which increase surface temps. You also probably started increasing head speed (to make up for the added weight) which does the same. And electric motors probably add more heat to the pinion.
All that in addition to the possability that the mesh was not as good or as stable.
The failure was likely thermal while on a nitro machine, it's probably more likely shear force. And, the 0.7 mod gear on the 700 was wider than on the 600 wasn't it? Thus, it had higher shear force than those on the 600.

But, I won't counter it....I haven't messed with it. Just saying...I could.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 09:23 PM  7 years agoPost 2056
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The 700N would never strip a mod .7 gear,
I put "Main gear stripped" in search for the 700N section and found quite a few nitros that stripped the .7 main gear .Theres 3 pages if you wanna go look for yourself

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 10:07 PM  7 years agoPost 2057
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've stripped a mod 0.7 main gear on my 700N, so have many others.

The Logo 600 used to come with a 0.7 main gear. Too many stripped out. They now come with modulus 1.0.

Mod 0.7 doesn't appear to be suitable for most setups above a 500 class heli.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 10:11 PM  7 years agoPost 2058
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

But, I won't counter it....I haven't messed with it. Just saying...I could.
Well I have messed with it, A LOT, on both, never had and have never seen a problem on the N's, but with E's, striped. I know what the problem is with convincing people...Your in LOVE with nitro, and you know what they say..."LOVE IS BLIND"...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 10:23 PM  7 years agoPost 2059
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thats funny you say you never seen a problem but yet you replyed in threads where ALOT of guys have,maybe you didn't see them .I guess you missed the post above yours by rexxigpilot also .Do you have all them people on ignore ?

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-02-2011 10:29 PM  7 years agoPost 2060
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just flew that 90 t600 again and its a fun heli. Stock gear ratio with no stripping issues. If you want a stronger gear there is a kde mod to use the t700 main gear on the t600.

BTW the 70 was running pretty well. I didn't notice anything bad with it in the video. That heli was built up in 2008 and for 2008 that's really acceptable compared to other helis back then and much more reliable than the OS50 or the TT53 with a carb smart.

LonR you the man. I 100% agree now after flying the 50 with 90 in it that it is pretty fun and worth the effort if you've got the engine. You happy you win

Enjoy
C

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 427 pages [ <<    <     102     ( 103 )     104     NEXT    >> ] 243018 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeOff Topics › Nitro vs. Electric
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 58  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, October 18 - 6:29 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online