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T-REX 700 › Not Burning Up the Sky?
10-13-2010 08:04 PM  8 years agoPost 1
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ok, so I already dabbled with a retarded-powerful 700, peaking out at a gross 10hp, yes, it was nuts and almost cooked my stuff...

so, now I'm trying to find out who is running their 700e maybe a little more conservatively..for sport, and mild, smooth 3D practice, NOT air-bending, black-hole making, space-time disrupting performance.

...and, I'm hoping to not have to change my motor, but will if necessary.

My current setup is flybarred, airframe without main flight pack comes in at 7lbs 5.3oz.

Main blades: MAH 690 G3
Tail blades: Stealth 105mm
stock Align paddles
MKS brushless on cyclic and tail
Hyperion 2s1700 LiFEPO4 for RX power
Spartan Quark
CC PHX ICE 80HV (SetRPM mode)
Custom Heli Parts frame conversion kit (was a nitro originally)
Scorpion 4035-530
11t pinion
mod-1 Align main gear (version 1)

I am planning to install a ADK fbl conversion and use a MicroBeast.

I have a 12s5000 30c and 12s3000 25C (experimenting with low weight packs) flight packs.

The model was obscene at 1900-2100 RPM. I'm thinking 1700-1800 might be spritely enough, yet afford lower component temps, less amp draw and longer flight time.

Can anyone concur with this or have similar setups?

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-13-2010 08:26 PM  8 years agoPost 2
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Our shops FBL 700e is what I would call a mid level power setup:

700MX-510
12T
ICE 80HV
2s 2600 rec power
Align DS610/DS650
Edge 693 FBL
Edge 105
HeliCommand HC3-X
12s 4500 30C

Setup in set RPM gov @1950 RPM I typicaly put back 3200-3500 after a 7 min flight.

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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10-13-2010 08:46 PM  8 years agoPost 3
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

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Danny,

You don't happen to have any video of this particular model do you?

Your setup is very similar. Though your Align motor is capable of a higher output by 500watts and amperage (80 vs. 94).

What does your ESC's Power Out usually run?

If you re-geared it or changed motor KV so you could keep the ESC happy (90-98% estimated Power Out & bouncing off 100 during flight) to drop 100-200 RPM, do you think the performance would degrade much? Maybe a slight increase in flight time, lower current draw, etc.?

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-13-2010 08:48 PM  8 years agoPost 4
McCrasher

rrNovice

Ventura, Ca, USA

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I have all stock equipment on my flybarless 700e and usually fly at about 1750-1850 rpm and there is more than enough power to do any of the sport flying that I can ask of it. Heli is 12lbs rtf and flies light. Started with the 85HV but changed it out for an ICE 80HV so I could see what I was pulling in flight. I can fly it for about 12+mins, but I limit myself to 8 for sanity. I did fly it for 10 twice, but it was too much time for good concentration. I believe that if you use the right packs, 3300-3500mAh packs could be used. Peak draw as measured with the ICE only hit 110A at 2050 rpm, 12° pitch pump.

Mike

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10-13-2010 08:50 PM  8 years agoPost 5
TrevJonez

rrKey Veteran

St.George, Utah - USA

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im flying mine with 5000mah 20c turnigy packs and fly for 4:30-5 min and come down at about 35% remaining.

2000 headspeed

ice 120HV governed

scorpion 4035-500 13t pinion on 115 cnc gear.

the esc comes down slightly warm and the battery's hardly over ambient. motor comes down at like 180F but in my experience that is normal for the scorpion motor.

align 3g with 690D.

the thing is a rocket with this setup. though im no 3D pro but i still think the 700m motor would have been more than anyone should realistically need. i only went to the scorpion because i had a bearing come apart after 2 flights on my 700m and ruined the windings.

are you running fixed end points or the gov?

i have 1650 in normal
1850 in idle 1
2000 in idle 2

it is crazy responsive in idle 2 and faster than any other heli i have ever had but being that it is so big it doesn't get away from me like a 450 might do.

running 16 gov gain to make sure i don't strip my gear (did that twice due to gov gain) and 16 head speed change rate. 4 on spool up speed and i think thats about it (8khz and low on motor settings)

im wondering if the extra bulk of the flybar head has anything to do with your huge power draws but i suspect it is because of your higher kv motor. i opted for the 500kv because it would need a higher tooth count pinion which should mesh better.

i have over flown my timer (forgot to start it) and went prolly 6:30 or so and it came down at 21% remaining in the flight pack.

i'll take mine to work tomorrow and weight it though i suspect its at or under 10 lbs ready to fly.

Who cares... its just money...

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10-13-2010 09:09 PM  8 years agoPost 6
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

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well, key to efficiency with the CC ESC is keeping the Power Out bouncing off of 100% during the flight (MOSFETs staying On longer).

Comparing Danny's shop's 700e to mine in terms of Castle Link estimates, our motors are pretty close to producing nearly the same hypothetical numbers...

at 1900-1950 with my Scorp on 11t and your 700mx-510 on 12, that RPM is most efficient. If we were to go to a lower headspeed, we'd both need to drop pinion sizes...don't really want to go any lower than a 11t as it is.

Maybe I need to look at the Xera 4030-3Y-470 motor or the Neu 450kv equiv.

Mike, what brand/size packs are you using? Also, what is your gearing, ESC temps and Power Out numbers during your flights?

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-13-2010 10:34 PM  8 years agoPost 7
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

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Maybe I need to look at the Xera 4030-3Y-470 motor or the Neu 450kv equiv.
I have the Xera 4030-3Y (470kv) in a FBL Rave ENV geared @8.66:1. Set up for the same head speed I get pretty much the same results as the 700e although the ENV weighs almost half a pound heavier with the same packs. My experience is that if you want to gain flight time you need to reduce the head speed. If you want to retain the performace you need to reduce the weight. My TDR weighed 10 lbs ready to fly. The 700e weighs 11.5 and the Rave is at 11.9 with the same packs. A light weight machine running a fairly low head speed can be a lot of fun. The TDR would 3D at 1400 RPM for 10 min on 12s 4500. The same machine would do 130+ MPH at 1900 RPM.

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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10-14-2010 02:07 AM  8 years agoPost 8
litespeed600

rrKey Veteran

St. Charles, Missouri

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My 700e 3G weighs in at 10 lbs 6 oz or about 4718 grams with 2-6s 4600 packs. I add 3 oz going to my 5000mah packs. I fly mild 3D with a lot of sport in there for 8 min at 1950 rpm head speed. If I step up the 3D more I fly 7 mins at the same head speed. I only put back 3300 mah on either flight with all of my 5-12s packs. 2 sets of 25C, 1 set of 30C and 2 sets of 35C. I find that 1950 is the perfect 3D head speed for me. Great mix of power/flight time and it still pitch pumps, flips and rolls faster than my V-bared Logo 500 at 2200 and my 450 Pro at 3300 head speed.

Great machine it is!

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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10-14-2010 02:35 AM  8 years agoPost 9
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tom,

Great info! How do you feel your performance varies amongst your different "C" rated packs?

My model, flybarless should come in around or possibly just under your weight.

What size blades do you turn and what is your collective and cyclic pitches?

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-14-2010 12:47 PM  8 years agoPost 10
litespeed600

rrKey Veteran

St. Charles, Missouri

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There is a small difference between the 25c and 35c packs. The 25c packs were used and came with the heli the 35c were brand new. It's only noticeable on the big power sucking maneuvers.

I have the stock 690 D blades and running 13.5 degrees pitch and 10 on cyclic. I originally had 12 on cyclic and it was just too fast.

I need to shoot some video some day....

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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10-14-2010 06:56 PM  8 years agoPost 11
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tom,

Either your collective management is very good, otherwise, how could you not be bogging the model down with so much pitch on a small blade and those somewhat heavy lipos?

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-14-2010 07:08 PM  8 years agoPost 12
504Rone

rrKey Veteran

New Orleans, LA.

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I Ran 25, 30 and 35c. The higher the c rating, the higher the headwords with the same setting.

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10-14-2010 07:26 PM  8 years agoPost 13
litespeed600

rrKey Veteran

St. Charles, Missouri

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I fly smooth/mild 3D and I do believe that I do have good collective management skills. Some maneuvers need work but the staple moves that I do I have down pat. I fly slow and very direct.

Not sure if this is why but I built a Raptor e620 into a e710 with a Predator Gasser head, long boom and 12s 5500/Neu 1915-1Y at 11 lbs and a Predator Gasser that was a porky 12 lbs so I think it helped me learn collective a bit. I still have much to learn though......

Also with my 700e weighing in at 10 lbs 6 oz it feels super light in the air. Next time around when I need batteries I'm going to try the Turnigy Nano 4500 and loose another 4 oz.

The heli fits me well for what ever reason. I'm running/CD'ing a Heli Fun Fly this Saturday and I'll see if I can get someone to record a flight or 2. It won't be nothing crazy just sport/light/mild 3D for 7 mins or so......http://www.spiritsofstl.com/flyers/...2016%202010.pdf

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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10-15-2010 03:19 AM  8 years agoPost 14
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

just did some weigh-ins tonight (canopy installed)...

with Outrage 12s3000 25C = 10lb. 3.7oz

with PowerEdge 12s5000 30C = 11lb. 4.7oz.

I am going to go FBL, and I'm thinking of going for a 3700-4300-ish set of packs. I think this will keep me in the high-9 to mid-10lb range, not over-stress my components or my blades and should work out well - i think.

Any more setups from anyone are welcome! This is great information!

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-15-2010 04:36 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Chuck Bole

rrElite Veteran

Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm flying the Custom Heli E conversion as well.
right now..
Actro 32-3 (555Kv)
10T pinion 115T Main
Powerjazz
12S 3850 TP 30C
Total G
8717's
8900G
Radix 710 Std

Planning on putting a Xera 4030 2.5Y in it tomorrow. And should have some TP 5000's by next weekeng. I keep the head speed around 1950.
With throwing in some autos i usually fly 6 min. and put back 2900 to 3000Mah in the packs. I haven't weighed it yet. But it's lighter than the 14S E Synergy. Autos like a dream, and flips and rolls plenty fast for me. It was a tight fit to get the Powerjazz on it. The Total G cleaned up the wiring mess i had going on. See if we can get some video this weekend.

chuck

Team Synergy Field Representative / Scorpion / Thunder Power

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10-15-2010 02:40 PM  8 years agoPost 16
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Chuck,

Very nice!

Why did you decide to go to 5000mah packs?

And, what is prompting you to try that Xera over the Actro?

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-15-2010 06:24 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Chuck Bole

rrElite Veteran

Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've flown both in the E Synergy, both work great. But the Xera is a little faster Kv 560 as compared to the 555 of the Actro. Crash costs will be half with the Xera and i just want to try it and see how it does. Altho i think i had it in the first 700 E conversion i did a few years ago.. Must be gettin old can't remember.

Main reason for the 5000 packs is they were out of the 4400's. We flew 5000's in the First E 700, and the E Synergy and the E Stratus as well as a Ion-X and Ion-X2.. Altho they were 20 and 25C stuff they had more punch over the 3850s. They will add more weight but at the power level we're dealing with i'm not worried.. I know others preach about weight and they are right but i don't do the wild 3D stuff anyway.. Looking to see how the flight times differ.
chuck

Team Synergy Field Representative / Scorpion / Thunder Power

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10-15-2010 06:34 PM  8 years agoPost 18
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Chuck,

Interesting.

I'm thinking of going down in KV from 530 to sub-500 range to drop my headspeed to maybe 1800-ish, keep efficiency up, and try and have some pinion that is maybe 11-13t to keep a good amount of main gear engagement.

I'll be using the model for some mild 3D practice and doesn't need to be smack-crazy.

I'm investigating prices and sourcing on Kypom's K6 50C packs that can be charged up to 10C. I think the 3700-4500 packs with a higher C rating 35C+ would maybe give the kind of punch you're getting from your 5000 packs, but with a slight weight savings.

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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10-15-2010 07:46 PM  8 years agoPost 19
litespeed600

rrKey Veteran

St. Charles, Missouri

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Where in the USA has the Kypom batteries and what's the cost?

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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10-17-2010 06:42 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Magnus.S

rrNovice

Bollebygd, Västra Götaland, Sweden

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Regarding 700e set up's (Burned BL-700M)
Hi.

Magnus/Sweden here...

Just bumped in to this thread "googling" for: 700MX Vs Scorpion...
The Scorpion 5020-450 are sold out inside of EU.

Here's the story...
Today I got my T700e, the BL700M caught in fire 30m (90feet) up..
Interesting to do my first auto looking like a nitro heli!

The engine got smoked and I assume that the protection in the CC160HV esc didn't handled the situation that good either...
Most likely engine or esc producer fault... Had just 9 flight...

The PWM rate was quite high, but the other 2 loggs showed no signs of over heating in the esc. I guess my bad collective handling could be one cause...

Esc timing was sat at #6 and that should the engine of Kv510 handle.

Summing up:
Gov gain 25...
Timing 6...
PWM rate 24
HS 1952 (CC 160HV)
Turnigy 40/50C

That does Not work on a 700M engine...
Regarding the esc, might just be bad luck or..?

Well... Now I'm looking for a new engine. Will try one more CC esc...
Since the last larger heli meeting are the 23oct in this "land of polo bears" I will most likely go for the 700MX engine. Delivery time 4d. Reading the spec. It deliver more peak P. then the Scorpion 4035-510 but 5020-450 are most likely the deal future wise...

Edit...
One thing... Regarding the Kypom... Don't! They do not keep
up to the Spec. I have tried a wide range, It cost me **** load of money, there's nothing more in to them then the Zippy or Turnigy!!!
Or, they do not even keep up to that std.
Just my 10c

BR//MS

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