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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Zenoah 270RC surges durning needed power
10-12-2010 09:58 PM  8 years agoPost 1
av8wkr

rrNovice

Riverside, Ca

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I have a Zenoah 270RC with a GV-1 and Stator Gator on my Helibug 600 conversion. The engine has about two gallons through it. My low needle is set for a good idle. My high is set to 1 3/8. I'm using Amsoil at 50:1. At first I was having over speed problems till I read about the mechanical expo and the set up in the hidden menu I've read about in the forums. My throttle servo is a Align 610. The gasser flies great till I do a loop or a maneuver that requires engine power. Then it surges,like small rpm changes during the needed power requirement. Thought I would ask if anyone has ever seen this problem. Was thinking of turning in the high needle and see if that helps.

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10-13-2010 01:43 AM  8 years agoPost 2
Rototerrier

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Fayetteville, GA - USA

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Sounds like you might need to go into the advanced menu and change the GLMT value. Most likely the gain is a little off and is surging the engine.

See rbort very popular gv1 setup topic. Excellent information and tells you everything you need.

https://rc.runryder.com/t547042p1/

If you have already done all of this then say so and we can brainstorm

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10-14-2010 02:34 AM  8 years agoPost 3
av8wkr

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Riverside, Ca

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My Glmt is set to 25% like the instructions say. By the way my head speed is 2000 and I'm sure the clutch is not slipping.

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10-14-2010 05:20 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Phoenix NOTAR

rrApprentice

Tallahassee, Florida USA

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My Zenoah G270RC running Amsoil Saber at 50-1 in a Vario Scale heli, 10,000rpm, no govenor, has the high speed needle at 1 7/8 open, and the low needle is at 1 1/2 open. I have no over speeding or surging. The engine has about 8 gallons through it so far.

If I have any weird running issues with the engine, I replace the spark plug, and / or make sure that the carb is very clean (take it apart, and wash / blow everything out). So far it has run perfect after the plug / cleaning with these needle setting.

Sandy

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10-23-2010 06:10 AM  8 years agoPost 5
av8wkr

rrNovice

Riverside, Ca

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I just got out to the field. We have been having bad weather here in So. Cal. The link below is a You Tube Video of my gasser. About 1min 30 sec into it you can hear the engine doing the surging I was talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qr9PymAgfM

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10-23-2010 06:16 AM  8 years agoPost 6
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Thanks for the video
A picture is a 1000 words.

That's from the gv-1. Its because your clutch is slipping on disk loads and the motor is getting away and the gv-1 is pulsating the throttle.

Turn the governor off and you will lose the pulsating. You'll know its from the gv-1. Next you need to determine your clutch is slipping. Try a full power climbout and see if the rotors tend to lose speed in relation to the motor. Fix the clutch issue and the gv-1 will not pulsate like that any more except perhaps during a high speed powered descent.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4225 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3325 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1650 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 504 flts

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10-24-2010 01:10 AM  8 years agoPost 7
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Richen your low needle and have flying. Those maneuvers you were doing were loading and unloading the engine/head. You are transitioning between the needles during those maneuvers. Seems you low is a little on the lean side causing the engine to rev up when you unload the engine and get onto the low needle causing the gov to pulse the engine.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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10-24-2010 04:17 PM  8 years agoPost 8
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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How Good an Idle?
I have a Zenoah 270RC with a GV-1 and Stator Gator on my Helibug 600 conversion. The engine has about two gallons through it. My low needle is set for a good idle.
If you have too nice an idle then it could be lean and at least add to the GV1's work load maybe?
If I have a carb leak or clogged screen in the carb and it starts to run abit lean the GV1 cant control the motor very well especially on decents. Don't know if that's your problem . What is the low needle set at now exactly?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-25-2010 12:00 AM  8 years agoPost 9
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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You got to love it. One respectable poster says it is clutch slippage and another saying it is needle settings. Coming from a nobody, if you are not 100% sure that your needles are right then don't turn on that governor until you do know. Otherwise, peace of mind ... he, he,... he, he, he...

Ace
What could be more fun?

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10-25-2010 04:08 AM  8 years agoPost 10
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Ace ,I never said it was a needle valve setting and even said "don't know if that's your problem". I just added my experience with this type of problem. I even had this sorta problem cause my servo pot was worn out. Changed it out and it was fine.
Ace,,are trying to rattle everyone's cage again??

what does he,,,he,,,he,,,he,,, mean? out of medication???

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-25-2010 01:42 PM  8 years agoPost 11
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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I am still laughing from the other topic that the guy said he would richen the needle and put on a governor for "Peace of Mind".

My reference to richening the needles is from James's post not yours. He told us he was an expert. I already know Raja is.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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10-25-2010 02:32 PM  8 years agoPost 12
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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i dare you to find a post where I claim I am an "expert".

All i have ever done is offer what I have experienced. Take it or leave it.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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10-25-2010 03:05 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Rototerrier

rrVeteran

Fayetteville, GA - USA

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Still sorta sounds to me like the glmt is a little off and it is hunting..just like the gain being too high on a tail gyro.

Are you using a stator gator or the stock gv1 sensor? If stock, are you getting the full 97% sensor test reading?

Try the glmt on settings between 25 and 30 and see if it changes anything. In regards to clutch slippage, does it slip on your when you just to full pitch punch outs from a dead hover? Does it take a high rpm to enagage the clutch on the ground? If you really have to gas it to get the head to start spinning, then you probably do have clutch slippage. If the clutch is engaging with barely any throttle, then probably not..but still possible.

Have you tried flying without the governor to eliminate it from the equation completely?

Are you fling at a MX track or are those quads we are hearing? Sounds like a 450 4 stroke in the background.

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10-25-2010 04:46 PM  8 years agoPost 14
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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Richen your low needle and have flying. Those maneuvers you were doing were loading and unloading the engine/head. You are transitioning between the needles during those maneuvers. Seems you low is a little on the lean side causing the engine to rev up when you unload the engine and get onto the low needle causing the gov to pulse the engine.
+1
If you have too nice an idle then it could be lean and at least add to the GV1's work load maybe?
If I have a carb leak or clogged screen in the carb and it starts to run abit lean the GV1 cant control the motor very well especially on decents. Don't know if that's your problem . What is the low needle set at now exactly?
Again - good advice
Ace ,I never said it was a needle valve setting and even said "don't know if that's your problem". I just added my experience with this type of problem. I even had this sorta problem cause my servo pot was worn out. Changed it out and it was fine.
Ace,,are trying to rattle everyone's cage again??
Seems so.
Have you tried flying without the governor to eliminate it from the equation completely?
Great suggestion. I think it is always good advice to set the needles on any motor acceptably, before engaging the governor.

Phil

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10-26-2010 01:23 AM  8 years agoPost 15
woody37

rrApprentice

McAllen, Texas

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Richen your low needle and have flying. Those maneuvers you were doing were loading and unloading the engine/head. You are transitioning between the needles during those maneuvers. Seems you low is a little on the lean side causing the engine to rev up when you unload the engine and get onto the low needle causing the gov to pulse the engine.
Not that James is an expert but his advice helped me with that same problem.

Woody

A bad day of flying or fishin is better than a good day at work!

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10-26-2010 01:52 AM  8 years agoPost 16
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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My reference to richening the needles is from James's post not yours. He told us he was an expert.
I see ,,,who's James?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-26-2010 03:55 AM  8 years agoPost 17
curtgra

rrNovice

Corona, CA USA

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Rototerrier,

Yes that is a moto track in the corner of the valley we fly in. av8wkr and I fly at the same field. They're not part of our flying field, they just have a little realestate in the corner there. Boy do they pissed when planes or helis fly over their track Even had some planes go down and end up inside the track. Mostly though they're pretty cool....its just a couple of "Jeremy McGrath" wannabes that get all uppidty.

Can I try yours.............No, get your own!

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10-26-2010 03:58 AM  8 years agoPost 18
av8wkr

rrNovice

Riverside, Ca

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After a lot of playing around....the Governor seems to be bad. The throttle came back way too far when needing power intermittently. I took it off and set up curves and I'm flying and having fun with my gasser. No over speeds and no low power when I need power. Thanks for all your help. I was using a stator gator with a used gv-1 I picked up out at the field. Maybe after flying without it and I see a need I'll get a new one.

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10-26-2010 01:20 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Rototerrier

rrVeteran

Fayetteville, GA - USA

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I doubt the governor is bad. They are really tricky to get setup. It relies on the curves in the background and maybe you had them slightly off. If could also still be the gain. Maybe you could have tried a master reset. I wouldn't completely rule out the gv1.

I have nothing better to do, if you wanted to send it to me I would be more than happy to hook it to one of my ships and try it out if you don't have anyone around there that can diagnose the problem for you.

----------------------------
Also...I was more of a Windham wannabe Had this Arai helmet / color scheme and all. Plus...he is still hitting the podium. Once Carmichael knocked JM from his thrown, he just vanished. Atleast Windham was consistent enough to be able to stick around all these years.

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10-26-2010 02:51 PM  8 years agoPost 20
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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I agree with Rototerrier
Now that you turned the gv-1 off, you lost the pulsating behaviour.

Maybe you should shoot another video showing these things:

(1) A spoolup to takeoff
(2) A full power climbout
(3) Some stationary flips

This extra data should help to pinpoint your problem further.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4225 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3325 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1650 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 504 flts

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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Zenoah 270RC surges durning needed power
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