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🏠HomeVendor Promoted Content › Align 3G 3G Mod
12-23-2010 12:55 AM  9 years ago
Leon Luke

rrApprentice

Canada

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Instead of changing the overall gain, have you tried just reducing the lock gains, also increasing the head speed slightly should help. FBL blades will help too.

With FBL blades you will be getting more stability due to weight and outer CG, and with FBL blades you will be able to turn up the overall gains even more for even more stability. This will enable a super stablee on rails feel, even in wind or gusty conditions. A great benefit with the FBL blades is the way the heli will transition at knife edge, it will be smooth and predictable.

To overcome the heavier blades you can increase the cyclic deflection in DIR or increase your aileron or elevator control rate in the software to get back the faster roll and flip rates.
Team AMain, JR Propo, YS Engine, Cool Power, KDE, Hatori, Eco Power Lipos
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12-23-2010 03:50 AM  9 years ago
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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Leon,
I have lock gains at 40. I wanted to leave them there and just drop total gain to compensate for my 3D blades. The heli flies so good right now it is not worth messing with. I never thought a 3G could groove that good on a 700.

I will bump head speed a bit next time out as well.
Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team
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12-23-2010 08:27 PM  9 years ago
Dino Spadaccini

rrElite Veteran

USA

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what is your head speed at now on the 700RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba
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12-24-2010 01:54 AM  9 years ago
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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About 1920.
Running the motor at 15800 on Align Gov
Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team
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12-24-2010 02:28 AM  9 years ago
Heliguychris

rrKey Veteran

Perth, West Australia

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Did this mod this morning, on my best setup ship, so see how it goes.

Cheers for sharing
Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au
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12-29-2010 01:44 AM  9 years ago
foodman392003

rrApprentice

Motorcity,Hockeytown ,USA

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3g
How do I get my alieron travel limit up?
Compass Chronos,7HVU,6HVU
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12-29-2010 03:03 AM  9 years ago
TrevJonez

rrKey Veteran

St.George, Utah - USA

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increase your swash mix then redo the 3g setup.Who cares... its just money...
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12-29-2010 03:08 AM  9 years ago
Heliguychris

rrKey Veteran

Perth, West Australia

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Single best tweak for 3G Much sooooother ride.

Thanks a bunch for following this up Leon Your a legend
Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au
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12-29-2010 03:53 AM  9 years ago
foodman392003

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Motorcity,Hockeytown ,USA

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thx, in my 3G settings display aleron travel limit is only 74. Also my - punch out from a hover is strong and hard inverted and + is soft and sluggish up right?Compass Chronos,7HVU,6HVU
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12-29-2010 03:55 AM  9 years ago
foodman392003

rrApprentice

Motorcity,Hockeytown ,USA

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Oh, increase swash mix for the aleron only?Compass Chronos,7HVU,6HVU
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12-29-2010 04:05 AM  9 years ago
Leon Luke

rrApprentice

Canada

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Single best tweak for 3G Much sooooother ride.

Thanks a bunch for following this up Leon Your a legend
Glad to hear it helped.
Team AMain, JR Propo, YS Engine, Cool Power, KDE, Hatori, Eco Power Lipos
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12-29-2010 04:19 AM  9 years ago
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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Foodman.
You need to verify zero degrees at center stick, equal collective travel, and you go back to zero before checking cyclic. I think you have a pitch issue
Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team
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12-29-2010 09:30 PM  9 years ago
foodman392003

rrApprentice

Motorcity,Hockeytown ,USA

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I have zero pitch at mid stick. The closest I can get is 13 neg and just under 14 positive pitch?Compass Chronos,7HVU,6HVU
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12-30-2010 01:53 AM  9 years ago
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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measured from 0 collective, what cyclic are you running?
How is motor tuning? You sounded like you were much stronger inverted?
Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team
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12-30-2010 02:52 AM  9 years ago
foodman392003

rrApprentice

Motorcity,Hockeytown ,USA

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I'll have to check all the cyclic and collective pitches again. It flys real good but the pull out is much better inverted.Compass Chronos,7HVU,6HVU
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12-30-2010 02:53 AM  9 years ago
foodman392003

rrApprentice

Motorcity,Hockeytown ,USA

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I just put the stock motor and esc in and have not done any set up with it. 17 tooth pinion.Compass Chronos,7HVU,6HVU
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01-04-2011 01:22 AM  9 years ago
davidjc

rrApprentice

E-Town , Kentucky

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.......
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01-15-2011 02:46 AM  9 years ago
Leon Luke

rrApprentice - Canada - MyPosts All  Forum  Topic

Align 3G Mod update
Settings

I am compiling a set of findings that have been arrived at over time. Hopefully by reading them you will gain an understanding of what I have been realizing is true with the 3g. However your results and conclusions may differ.

******************************************

One pilot asked why did I increase the aileron and elev gains and yet reduced the lock gains.

Here is why:

I have increased the gains on the elv and ail to get a more locked in feel, just as you would turn up the gain on a tail gyro. Also as in the case where there is excessive wag with a relatively low gain, one would change the delay or rudder heading lock gain percentage to allow the tail some more degrees of freedom before gyro corrects.

The same analogy applies here, the aileron and elevator lock is relaxed or reduced to give more degrees of freedom until a correction is made. But the overall gain is kept high to keep a very locked in feel yet will not cause any oscillations or "crack"

Also with the lock gains too high I have noticed that in manuevers like piro flips, that there would be stutters or un-smoothness as each axis in succession experiences an input and then no input. When as you are stirring the cyclic there is two points in a stir where each axis experiences no input, and that is where the lock gains is trying to stabilize the heli, It is this stabilization that is causing the stutter or un-smoothness for lack of a better term.

Furthermore, in a gentle forward flip, if elevator is applied gently and slowly, there usually is no aileron crack. In a more aggressive flip with more elevator deflection the rotor head may cause more vibration, and also the reduced headspeed from continual flips, will compound the tendency for aileron bobble. So to fix this, I recommend a lower lock gain and faster headspeed.

Of course all of this is further enhanced with heavier FBL blades which in and of itself more stable, not to mention you can increase the overall rate gain for even more stability.

****************************************

In the dir setup, I have cyclic swash rates adjusted to achieve equal cyclic pitches, I do not automatically make the aileron rate the same as the elevator as is suggested in the manual. I know from experience that the swash rates for elev and ail are different to achieve same cyclic deflection values on some helis. And therefore if you automatically use the same values, the 3G thinks that you are getting equal cyclic pitch values on both axis'.

******************************************

In general the set up philosophy is:

1. have sensor as rigid as possible, I use a thin almost paper like double sided tape to attach sensor to a heavy, thick and large steel spartan plate, then a 1mm thick foam tape to the gyro mount. In addition, I also use a wide, not the skinny, align velcro strap and tighten it down as much as I can.
2. make sure that the aileron and elevator rotation rates in the "comand display" screen are the same. You do this by adjusting the aileron/elevator "control rate" in their respective parameter setting screens until you get equal values, if desired, in the "command display" screen, but you must press the "write" button to see the changes.
3. set up dials on control box to about 12 o'clock, calibrate by observing the "3G setting display" screen until you see about 75% on the aileron and elevator gain. By doing this calibration the same for each helicopter, you can transfer settings from heli to heli meaningfully.
4. after step 3 you can increase your 'total gain compensate' in the aileron and elevator parameter setting screens.
5.if you experience good stability and a locked in feel, but have some oscillation in an elevator flip with aileron oscillation or other oscillations in aileron tic tocs, then gradually lower your lock gains in each of the aileron and elevator parameter setting screens, until satisfied.
6. Increase the swash return speed to about 70 in the "miscellaneous" screen.

*********************************************

Tail wags have been fixed by,

1. moving in the control ball on the tail servo horn.
2. do not have the gyro mounted too loosely.
3. reducing the rudder lock gain.
4. increasing the gain in tx or software.
5. making sure tail control links are very smooth.
6. if you are still getting tail wags, try a new boom, in one instance I put on a new boom and issue went away.

*********************************************

Do the sensor Mod

This is what I have been doing to my sensors, I have the silicone just touching the top and I leave the tabs in. I tried to put as much glue in as to stabilize the sensors and not contact too much of the sides and the top, but I wanted the tabs to remain to locate the sensors and the glue touches the tabs to insulate them from/to the sensors that they touch. The silicone does not ooze out anywhere. Lately I have been using Momentive rtv 162 electronics grade silicone, In the early mods I've used dynatex blue high temp rtv and permatex utltra grey rtv. All glues worked equally well.

I am not putting any glue on bottom of gyro sensor board.
************************************

I am not using any stop gains

********************************************

Using non FBL blades will result in a lower gain rate about 80% on aileron and elevator in the parameter setting screens (about 92% in the "3G setting screen", and a lock gains at 40%, swash return speed of 70, will work with no oscillations.

But with heaver FBL blades you can increase the gains to 88% or more, in aileron and elevator parameter setting screen (about 100% in the "3G setting screen" and a lock gains at 40%, swash return speed of 70, will work with no oscillations, BUT WILL BE VERY STABLE, even in very windy, gusty conditions. With heavier blades, the slower response will be overcome by increasing the cyclic deflection in aileron and elevator in DIR setup or elevator/aileron control rate in the software in the aileron/elevator parameter setting screens.

***************************************

If, a sensor is erratic, it is likely due to vibration, due to tape or mounting position.

****************************************

I have not had the tail twich issue, but some have found the cause to be static electrical discharge on belt driven machines.

*****************************************
Picture of my silicone mod

*****************************************
Picture of my gyro mount combo

*****************************************

On a 700N I had a wag that would not go away, until I changed the boom, the original boom was 2 years old and may have been weak or too flexible.
*****************************************

It goes without saying but it is critical to move your sensor to a very solid and vibration free place, and take the time to smoothen out your heli. You will be rewarded for doing so!

*****************************************
More to come as I remember.

REASON FOR UPDATE:INCLUDED 2 PICTURES

Team Align, Cool Power, Switchglo, RC Booya, SGP
Team AMain, JR Propo, YS Engine, Cool Power, KDE, Hatori, Eco Power Lipos
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01-20-2011 05:03 AM  9 years ago
danieldouville

rrApprentice

Napa, Ca USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
3G sensor case screws
Thanks for all the support and information! The power of the web at it's best,, hey I stripped the head on a screw from the sensor case taking it off getting ready for the mod,, does anyone have a clue as to where one could find those?
Thanks again
stole a screw from my other unit
Mod completed, followed leon's directions perfectly, Heli flies the best ever, locked in, even in ground wash perfect hover.
Used plumbers goop, filled it in to just below the top of the case and a little on the bottom under the motherboard.
I left the USB cable in so I could make modifications to the settings on my laptop
Omnidirection shocks and pursuades my soul to ignite
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02-21-2011 12:05 AM  8 years ago
Leon Luke

rrApprentice

Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
game changer
Glad it is working for you!
Team AMain, JR Propo, YS Engine, Cool Power, KDE, Hatori, Eco Power Lipos
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🏠HomeVendor Promoted Content › Align 3G 3G Mod
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