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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › ???? Have you gone back to FLYBAR from FLYBARLESS ????
10-13-2010 03:02 AM  8 years agoPost 141
Alexm0324

rrApprentice

Atlanta, Georgia USA

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So I see that Caleb has chimed in with "buy the logo". Caleb rocks and so does Mikado, so I trust him. This thread would make great fodder for a good comedian. Any of you who actually know the guy who started this thread like myself and Caleb know that he's a big wuss. He is actually on the preorder list for the full size vbar. At the same time he is interested in comments from the die hard of both arguments. Beware, helixangle is a huge smart@ss, but I love him like a brother.

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10-13-2010 03:08 AM  8 years agoPost 142
Terrabit

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Seattle, WA - USA

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Dispite being utterly pointless with a few choice exceptions, this has been one of the more entertaining fb v fbl threads.

Thanks y'all!

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10-13-2010 03:15 AM  8 years agoPost 143
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Caleb rocks and so does Mikado
Agreed...
Beware, helixangle is a huge smart@ss
hey not fair, I've learned quite a bit form this thread, and yes I'm waiting on my Vbar, as I said earlier --

if the Germans could stop worrying about the packaging and just ship the damn thing already...
but I love him like a brother.
Aww...love you too boobies, I'm only three weeks away from my trip to atl, and I still don't think the damn Vbar will be shipped

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2010 03:20 AM  8 years agoPost 144
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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LOL love em like a brotha

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-13-2010 03:23 AM  8 years agoPost 145
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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@ OICU812 LOL

be careful I think your screen name says it all

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2010 03:29 AM  8 years agoPost 146
Alexm0324

rrApprentice

Atlanta, Georgia USA

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I left out one more opinion.
Any aircraft is only as good as the quality of its parts. It only flies well with a good pilot behind the sticks no matter the sum of its parts or quality. I still digress to the earlier post of automatic vs. Manual car transmission or heading hold vs. Rate mode gyro. You now have the opinion from the masses. Try it yourself and report back in a few months. It's your preference. Fly it and smile whichever you choose.

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10-13-2010 03:46 AM  8 years agoPost 147
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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much like those that don't understand how to properly set up a flybarred system.
I haven't been able to figure out why certain ones on this thread are claiming there are those who don't know how to set up a FB system...a moron could do it. The only things different from setting up a FBL system is put on fly bar, center it and tighten set screws. Put weights on if needed, get them even, put on paddles, level them and tighten up the set screws or whatever holds them. Set ATVs for desired throw..that's it! Like I said an Idiot could do it. It takes a smarter person to set up a FBL system. So anyone who is arguing that FBL advocates like FBL because they don't know how to set up a FB system is grasping at straws with a non sequitur. Also, what adjustments does this system offer, lenth of flybar, size and distance from head of weights, size and weight of paddles...that's all. This system is very limited in terms of it's tunablilty. But if that's good enough, then each to his own...

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10-13-2010 03:58 AM  8 years agoPost 148
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I can't find the close topic button. Can you?

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10-13-2010 04:00 AM  8 years agoPost 149
Alexm0324

rrApprentice

Atlanta, Georgia USA

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Close it Johnny, close it!

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10-13-2010 04:16 AM  8 years agoPost 150
Ravenhyper50

rrKey Veteran

Canada's Capital

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I was thinking it but, band1086 laid it all out

In a nut shell, FBL offers way more tunability/adjustments no matter who sets up a FB heli.

With FB if you want speed you have to give up stability on cyclic (lighter paddles)Given same head speed. With FBL you can get both!

FBL can achive much greater rates/throws than what some FB heli can achieve.

I myself after feeling and experiencing what a nicely tuned FBL system can do, for all the above reasons I will never fly a flybarred heli ever again!

When I was Flybarred, I did not enjoy flying when it was windy out.

With FBL what wind? My FBL machines fly the same windy or calm.
LOVE it!

Afte Flying my FBL X5 over the weekend I still have this on my face

Raven

quick someone grab the handle ! keep stirring

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10-13-2010 04:21 AM  8 years agoPost 151
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Also, what adjustments does this system offer, lenth of flybar, size and distance from head of weights, size and weight of paddles...that's all.
Interesting.

When you get a chance, take a paragraph and give us a detailed explanation of how flybar length affects FFF trim and hover stability. Then take another page or few and describe ALL the nuances of both positive and negative delta and how they affect the flight characteristics of the model both in hover and in aerobatics. Then we can move on to dampening and the limitations of durometer and damper size and how that plays against how much delta you can run and of which type. Then you can spend some time describing all you know about flybar ratios and how they not only affect the way the model itself flies but also how they must be tweaked in consideration of dampening, flybar length, delta, paddle weight and design, and blade weight and design.

After you're certain you've really shown us all just how little there is to adjust on a FB model to get it to do EXACTLY what you may need it to do, send it all in a PM to the likes of Wayne Mann, Cliff Hiatt, or Curtis who have, in the past quarter century, forgotten more about model helicopters than most will learn in two lifetimes. Have any one of them check your work and see how well you know your helicopter aerodynamics.

THEN, I just have a feeling, you might realize it takes a bit more than a moron's worth of intelligence to tune a FB model to do EXACTLY what you want it to do, certainly as much as it does to correctly work your way through the parameters for a FBL model but in a different way.

Oh and BTW, I am NOT anti FBL. The model I'm now building will be FBL as soon as the FBL system I really want appears on the market.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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10-13-2010 04:35 AM  8 years agoPost 152
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Bravo Ben!!

I've spent two years learning how to adjust geometry, heli mechanics, and tuning the head so it does just what I want it to do. I have gotten basic set up at the field down to approx 30 to 40 min, as when someone sees my bird fly they want me to look at theirs and set it up for them.

A FB is a great challenge with great success if you have the right people teach you what it is your looking at.

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2010 04:40 AM  8 years agoPost 153
Ghostrider

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San Diego, CA

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Bravo Dr.Ben

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10-13-2010 04:40 AM  8 years agoPost 154
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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I can't find the close topic button. Can you?
Close it Johnny, close it!
You know you can't stop looking at the light...you know you want to keep reading...

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2010 04:47 AM  8 years agoPost 155
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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When you get a chance, take a paragraph and give us a detailed explanation of how flybar length affects FFF trim and hover stability. Then take another page or few and describe ALL the nuances of both positive and negative delta and how they affect the flight characteristics of the model both in hover and in aerobatics. Then...
Ben,
Even I, with fancy diploma and a minor in heli aerodynamics would dare to tackle that one. Yeah, I still love mess with it, but more important, know who to ask when I dont want to reinvent the wheel, or in this case a bell-hiller rotorhead.

Band1086
As you can read, Is not that easy to "perfectly set" a FB head, and in fact, it is much easier to explain (and consequently write code) flight dynamics of a simple Bell head (FBL).

Santiago

where's the close bottom, where ????

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10-13-2010 04:47 AM  8 years agoPost 156
helixangle

rrKey Veteran

Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Dr Ben
Are you OC Ben from the schluter days?

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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10-13-2010 05:02 AM  8 years agoPost 157
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Ben I like your subtle hint. When's it out to evaluate?

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-13-2010 05:02 AM  8 years agoPost 158
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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I didn't mean to step on your toes Ben, but my point is probably 99% of the guys that get, for instance, a TR700 kit put the parts on the head that come in the kit. 99% of the guys out there are not to the caliber of some of you world class FAI pilots that can't use FBL in competition. It's just annoying to hear people say that FBL people only like FBL because they can't set up a FB unit. That's also insulting! But I did not want to insult anyone, I just wanted to make a point.

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10-13-2010 05:23 AM  8 years agoPost 159
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Agreed.

No one should be stepping on anyone's toes here. This is just a spirited discussion.
Are you OC Ben from the schluter days?
Nah, just me, Ben Minor .

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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10-13-2010 06:04 AM  8 years agoPost 160
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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I don't own a fbl unit never flown 1 either.
But after seeing my buddy's heli fly in the wind I WANT 1.

For those of us still flying Century who want a faster cyclic this maybe the ticket to making it fly right.

is hoping santa brings me a mini V

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › ???? Have you gone back to FLYBAR from FLYBARLESS ????
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