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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › ???? Have you gone back to FLYBAR from FLYBARLESS ????
10-11-2010 06:41 PM  8 years agoPost 81
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Well said there laughingstill. Just because someone flew another's FBL heli gives them no concept of how a FBL heli performs.

I will say just one elucidatory word for those bashing FBL helis...Luddite!

Like some have placed in their signatures, you never want to argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

If you don't have a properly setup FBL heli, you have no standing in this discussion.

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10-11-2010 06:55 PM  8 years agoPost 82
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

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Seems the sport flyers are the ones liking FBL and 95% of 3D pilots don't.3D pilots say the same as Max 3D..

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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10-11-2010 06:59 PM  8 years agoPost 83
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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They DO NOT allow any type of electronic gyro to control or stabilize the roll axis or fore/aft pitch axis, because the engine torque is not such a factor in them.
That's F3C. F3N allows them. All 3D competitions allow them.

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10-11-2010 07:02 PM  8 years agoPost 84
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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3D pilots say the same as Max 3D..
Yet it is allowed in 3D competition.

It is the FAI F3C guys that reject it. Probably for the same reason the airplane guys do. Why that reason is important for F3C and not considered for F3N/3D is beyond me.

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10-11-2010 07:04 PM  8 years agoPost 85
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Seems the sport flyers are the ones liking FBL and 95% of 3D pilots don't.3D pilots say the same as Max 3D..
So why are most of the latest 3D contests being won with FBL systems? I realize they are sponsored but they are not going to win with something that is inferior. It simply comes down to preference........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-11-2010 07:07 PM  8 years agoPost 86
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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Max, flying someone else's FBL heli will not necessarily give you an accurate snapshot of how they perform or the faults within. Now if you understood the systems and adjusted them to suit your needs, then my point is moot.
You have to learn them, set them up, and adjust them for YOU. After ALL avenues have been exhausted, then you should be good.........Ron
Ron, I think the same can be said about a heli with a flybar.

I trust all will understand that I am not bashing FBL systems or FB systems. What I am trying to keep clear is that both can be tuned to ones flying style or control feel.

And if one likes a particular feel and tries someone else's heli (be it FB or FBL) they may get a wrong impression of the heli.

Phil

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10-11-2010 07:08 PM  8 years agoPost 87
RAK402

rrElite Veteran

Alhambra, CA

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"So why are most of the latest 3D contests being won with FBL systems?"

Excellent point.

Did not Kyle Dahl just win the XFC with a 600 size Mikado machine equipped with V-Bar?

Team KBDD/Compass Team Manger/Experience RC/Team JR Americas/WR Field Rep

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10-11-2010 07:14 PM  8 years agoPost 88
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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"So why are most of the latest 3D contests being won with FBL systems?"
They are all won by fully sponsored pilots who do not have to pay for any of the helis and FBL systems they are flying. So if their sponsor wants them to fly an FBL system for the promotion of more of their sales, I am sure they will oblige.

Why should brand X promote the sale of their FB equiped heli when they can make a lot more selling their FBL equipped heli. And if they can make many believe it is a "must have" so much the better for the bottom line.

Phil

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10-11-2010 07:17 PM  8 years agoPost 89
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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They DO NOT allow any type of electronic gyro to control or stabilize the roll axis or fore/aft pitch axis, because the engine torque is not such a factor in them.
That's F3c. F3N allows them. All 3D competitions allow them.
Is that not what I also said in that same post?

Phil

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10-11-2010 07:18 PM  8 years agoPost 90
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Since we've totally threadjacked, is no one willing to answer this threadjack attempt?
A completely different argument exists for whether we will ever want a PERFECT stability system. Would a perfect stability system remove too much of the challenge from the hobby? How about from contests? Clearly this is opinion and not performanced based. But consider this: Gyros are illegal in fixed wing contest flying. Why do you suppose that is? What does an airplane with gyros do that a pure one doesn't? Does the answer to that question have any bearing on helis? What does this rule say about them? What does it say about us?
If these questions seem irrelevant, consider that as 3-axis stabilization systems get better and better, these questions will become more and more relevant.

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10-11-2010 07:24 PM  8 years agoPost 91
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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What I, and I am sure others are trying to say, is that they both work and deliver what most would want from their helis.

What I take exception to, is the "must have what is perceived as kewl" mentality, which makes many think that they would not be able to enjoy flying their "sport" heli in a sport or even 3D manner without installing extra gadgets.

I have just as much respect for a fellow who flies hi FB helis well as one who flies his FBL heli well.

Just because Mr. X uses an FBL system does not make him any bigger, in my eyes, as someone who does not. But how he flies and what knowledge he possesses does make a difference to me.

Phil

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10-11-2010 07:25 PM  8 years agoPost 92
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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No but it does make his heli "bigger"

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-11-2010 08:09 PM  8 years agoPost 93
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

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So why are most of the latest 3D contests being won with FBL systems?I realize they are sponsored
Said it yourself,they fly what there given and thats why.

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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10-11-2010 08:14 PM  8 years agoPost 94
payne1967

rrElite Veteran

uk

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going off the which fb/fbl system is better or not

can any of you who has more knowlege than me on the fbl systems answer me this question?
will the electronics work effectivly on a mechanicaly mixed heli using slower, high torque servos?
or do they need eccpm and fast servo's?
i'm looking to put a unit on a bell type scale head with the bell bar locked in position, so effectively its a fbl control set up
with the bar and weights on doing nothing to control the head

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10-11-2010 08:16 PM  8 years agoPost 95
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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That's not fair to threadjack when my threadjack has not been addressed. LOL.

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10-11-2010 08:30 PM  8 years agoPost 96
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Said it yourself,they fly what there given and thats why.
Yes, correct but if the best 3D pilots (the ones winning) are flying FBL helis....and winning, it must be preference not a "flawed" system.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-11-2010 08:34 PM  8 years agoPost 97
Al Austria

rrElite Veteran

Sacramento, CA - USA

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So why are most of the latest 3D contests being won with FBL systems?
A FB T-REX 700N won the German Heli Masters this year, besting a few V-Barred Logo 600's.

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10-11-2010 08:36 PM  8 years agoPost 98
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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And FBL helis won XFC, 3D Masters etc

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-11-2010 08:38 PM  8 years agoPost 99
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Say you were watching racing. Some cars had manual transmission. Some had automatic. Sometimes the manual transmission won. Sometimes the automatic transmission won.

Would you consider the transmission to be a deciding factor in who won? Or would it be the driver?

It's the same thing here guys. Neither system is flawed, and winnings only speak to the pilot, not the equipment.

Is no one going to answer my threadjack question, though?

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10-11-2010 08:42 PM  8 years agoPost 100
Al Austria

rrElite Veteran

Sacramento, CA - USA

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Point is that it is a moot point.

If you get your kicks from from believing that your choice of flying system, be it FB or FBL, is more superior than the next, then more power to you.

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