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07-31-2012 04:00 AM  9 years ago
outhouse

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LOL someone put Dr.gibberish on the sideline !!!

LOL too funny
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07-31-2012 11:10 AM  9 years ago
Thomas L Erb

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I do hope you are able to support your claims and that you're not telling lies again.
As usual dusty you avoid the question. You have yet to prove our statement. Is it not you that is telling the lie?
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07-31-2012 11:35 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Dusty, as I hAve AlwayS tOld yoU, I beliEve in evolUtion, buT I alsO beliEve in prOgraminG,
'head, first of all, my post was directed to Thomas, not you. That should be evident by the fact that I began the post with the word, ''Thomas.''

Secondly, the point in question is what proportion of Christians believe the Bible is literally true. As you are not a Christian, your opinion makes no difference to the total.

Finally, you are just after saying: ''I saw more *science* on TV tonight that strengthens my belief in ID.''

So, now you believe in evolution AND ''ID''?
you have not shown the proof that cancels out programing/tweaking
Why don't you try explaining how you think this programming/tweaking occurred?

Dusty
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07-31-2012 11:38 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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As usual dusty you avoid the question. You have yet to prove our statement. Is it not you that is telling the lie?
No, I didn't avoid the question. Did you not see the chart I posted?

You do realise that someone who believes the Bible is literally true, does not believe that humans developed from an earlier species of animal? Well?????

You, however, most certainly have failed to even try to support your claim. Why don't you simply post links to these Islamic sites you claim say that most Christians throughout the world accept that the Bible is not literally true?

Dusty
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07-31-2012 05:04 PM  9 years ago
Thomas L Erb

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You do realise that someone who believes the Bible is literally true, does not believe that humans developed from an earlier species of animal? [B]Well?????[/B
Now dusty ,using smoke and mirror again.your graph does not represent just so called christian people from around the world ,it represents all types. You also lump all people that call themselfs Christians in this group even though in truth they are only so called Christians by birthplace and association. Not unlike yourself for one example. You so call yourself Christian for whatever reason but do not represent true Christianity at all yet include your type in your statements and views which only delutes the facts to suit you bias.
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07-31-2012 08:32 PM  9 years ago
Gearhead

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""So, now you believe in evolution AND ''ID''?,Why don't you try explaining how you think this programming/tweaking occurred?""

,,, simple,,, ,,, the very first cell on earth was programmed by god to evolve

can't you see how simple it is
Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
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08-01-2012 08:47 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Now dusty ,using smoke and mirror again.your graph does not represent just so called christian people from around the world ,it represents all types. You also lump all people that call themselfs Christians in this group even though in truth they are only so called Christians by birthplace and association.
Well Thomas, take the UK for example where according to the 2001 census, around 70% of the population identified themselves as Christians. As only around 17% of the total population answered ''false'' to the question as to whether humans evolved from an earlier species, even if we assume they are all Christians and none are Muslims etc, which is unlikely, that still means more than three quarters of all people in the UK who identify themselves as Christians do not believe the Bible is literally true. And I would be extremely surprised if the figure was not considerably higher than that. As the Bishop of Oxford said, most folk in the UK realised the Bible is not literally true by the mid-1800s. As I come from a Christian background myself I know many more Christians than I do people who follow other religions, but I don't know anyone at all who believes the Bible is literally true. If you lived in Europe, you would also know that fundamentalist Christianity exists mainly in the US. Even the Pope doesn't believe everything the Bible says is literally true.

VATICAN CITY - While Catholics believe the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it is true, one cannot take individual biblical quotes or passages and say each one is literally true, Pope Benedict said.

http://wcr.ab.ca/WCRThisWeek/Storie...50/Default.aspx

But you are correct, I do not judge people as to whether or not they are Christians, like you do. Since you would judge everyone to fit your own criteria of whether or not they are Christians, you would not accept any data that anyone might post because it would rely on what other people say, rather than your judgement of them.

In your judgement, are the Pope and Bishop of Oxford not Christians, since they don't believe everything in the Bible is literally true?
Not unlike yourself for one example. You so call yourself Christian for whatever reason but do not represent true Christianity at all yet include your type in your statements and views which only delutes the facts to suit you bias.
No, I do not ''call myself Christian.'' That is not my name. Nor do I call myself a Christian. Why do you have so much trouble comprehending what other people post?

Anyway, why have you not posted links to these Islamic sites you claim say most Christians throughout the world do not believe the Bible is literally true? Was this just another one of your lies?

Dusty
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08-01-2012 08:52 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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,,, simple,,, ,,, the very first cell on earth was programmed by god to evolve
can't you see how simple it is
Wow, a reasoned argument from 'head. I certainly didn't expect that. Did you just step up a gear, or did someone else type that for you?

Your suggestion is certainly more realistic, and makes more sense, than does a literal interpretation of Genesis.

So if a god created the first cell on earth, then:

1) Do you think the same god also created the earth?

OR

2) did the earth form naturally, then the god came along and created the first cell after that?

Dusty
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08-01-2012 09:31 AM  9 years ago
InvertedDude

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Dusty1000
I am joking here....kinda..

Dusty1000 let me make it simple and yet as dumb as a cave man I possible can be.

Anything outside GOD's requirement lands you in HELL.

Either you believe or you don't.

Can't say it anymore simple than that. I know it sounds childish, stupid, immature, not modern and etc. I am aware that there are thousands of different religions and GODs. Jesus picked me and called me out of darkness.

GOd sets the rules...follow them or enjoy being in a toasted oven. When you are laying your death bed, you will sense something tugging on your soul. Pay attention, you will have only one chance before hell opens up.

You can be the nicest human being ever lived and have done no wrong in man's or your own eyes. You will still end up in hell if you do not take GOD's path for your salvation from your own sins.

As far as the other post on the thread....I didn't ignore it. It just I do not have any other means to explain or research it.

One of the biggest reasons people have problems with GOD. They can't fathom that GOD speaks things into existence from nothingness.
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08-01-2012 10:42 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Oh there's no need to spell out your beliefs to me, I am in no doubt that this is what you believe. But as you acknowledge, most other people do not hold to the same set of beliefs as you do. Personally, I do not believe that any gods, spirits, demons, angels, fairies, witches, or anything of the sort, that many people have believed in over history, are anything other than figments of those people's imaginations. And I see no reason to suspect that modern day Christians like yourself, with your belief in your god, demon and angels etc, are any different in this respect. As I'm sure you'll also acknowledge, most religions involve belief in a creator god and an afterlife of some sort.

But your god's actions, according to your beliefs, are not consistent with the actions of a god that is kind and merciful. Whereas, Jesus' teachings in the New Testament are on the whole, kind and merciful. You must believe that your god created mankind, in the full knowledge that, for one reason or another, most of them would spend eternity being tortured. If you were a creator god, would you create people in the full knowledge that they were going to spend eternity being tortured, or would you just not bother creating them in the first place? Or, perhaps you think that torturing lots of people for eternity is a price worth paying, in order to have a few people spend eternity in heaven with you?

To use a human analogy, would you breed animals if you knew that most of them would spend their lives being tortured? Would breeding ten dogs, knowing that nine of them would spend their lives being tortured, be a price worth paying, so that you could have one pet dog? Or, would you just not breed the dogs in the first place?

Do you not agree that it would be kinder for a god to not have created mankind in the first place, than to have created mankind in the full knowledge that, for one reason or another, most of them would spend eternity being tortured?

As for free will and making choices, an omnipotent omniscient creator god would of course have known what choices everyone would make, before he created mankind in the first place.

Dusty
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08-01-2012 11:36 AM  9 years ago
helicopter

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As for free will and making choices, an omnipotent omniscient creator god would of course have known what choices everyone would make, before he created mankind in the first place.
Wow, Dusty, you're still missing it!

God, tells us in the Bible that HE set forth a WAY
to SAVE mankind BEFORE HE created man!

Yes God knew Men would disobey!

BUT gave man life anyway!

YOU have this life God gave men!

You have a choice!

You can CHOOSE the PATH God Gave to save men
from death, or NOT!

Idude and I both have taken God's gift!

We are on the path towards God, not on a path
away from Him.

THIS is what HE desires for us.

Idude and I had nothing to do with God's Gift,
nor COULD we Choose God! We're sinners, dead
in disobedience, trespasses and sins, without
any hope!

BUT GOD who is rich in mercy CHOSE US!

So, my friend, instead of constantly telling us
how you already KNOW IT ALL, you might consider
humbling yourself and say, "God if You're there
I would Love to Know YOU."
To use a human analogy, would you breed animals if you knew that most of them would spend their lives being tortured? Would breeding ten dogs, knowing that nine of them would spend their lives being tortured, be a price worth paying, so that you could have one pet dog? Or, would you just not breed the dogs in the first place?
But GOD, who is rich in mercy made a way, ONE WAY to
have someone ELSE Pay the sin debt we owe to God due
to our disobedience handed down to us from the first
man who sinned. (And Died as a result)

So if YOU refuse to take the Hand of God and allow His
ONE WAY into your dying life, whose fault is it that
you end up in the flames of eternal hell?

So, for you, would it have been better if you
were not BORN?

Is it better that a mother gets a CHOICE to kill
her unborn baby?

In both instances, neither of these little lives
get to FEEL the Warmth of the Sun...

And if you are interested, God DOES take unborn
babies to heaven to be with Him. (But they do not
get to experience LIFE under the Sun.)

Where an unborn baby cannot CHOOSE GOD,
And HIS GRACE covers them in Love....

Can YOU choose the Real Eternal Loving and Gracious
God WHO Came here HIMSELF to PAY for YOUR SINS???

The Answer is NO, you cannot....

Can God?

.

Let Him!
I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!
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08-01-2012 01:51 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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As for free will and making choices, an omnipotent omniscient creator god would of course have known what choices everyone would make, before he created mankind in the first place.
Wow, Dusty, you're still missing it!
God, tells us in the Bible that HE set forth a WAY
to SAVE mankind BEFORE HE created man!
Yes God knew Men would disobey!
BUT gave man life anyway!
That is my point.
YOU have this life God gave men!
You have a choice!
You can CHOOSE the PATH God Gave to save men
from death, or NOT!
But like I said, according to your belief system, your god already knew what choices everyone would make before he created mankind. Yet he created mankind anyway, knowing full well that most people would be doomed to eternal torture.
So, for you, would it have been better if you
were not BORN?
Well if being born means spending eternity being tortured, then of course it would be better not to be born.

In any case, the point is not what individuals choose to do, because of course you believe your god knows in advance what everyone will choose to do anyway. The point is why would your god have created mankind in the first place, in the full knowledge that most would be doomed to eternal torture.

Does he like to see people being tortured?

Does he think many people spending an eternity being tortured is a price worth paying, to have a few spend eternity in heaven with him?

Does he just like sick games?

What could your god's motive have possibly been, for creating mankind, in the full knowledge that most would spend eternity being tortured?

Dusty
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08-01-2012 02:31 PM  9 years ago
InvertedDude

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Dusty1000
Well if being born means spending eternity being tortured, then of course it would be better not to be born.
In any case, the point is not what individuals choose to do, because of course you believe your god knows in advance what everyone will choose to do anyway. The point is why would your god have created mankind in the first place, in the full knowledge that most would be doomed to eternal torture.
Does he like to see people being tortured?
Does he think many people spending an eternity being tortured is a price worth paying, to have a few spend eternity in heaven with him?
Does he just like sick games?
What could your god's motive have possibly been, for creating mankind, in the full knowledge that most would spend eternity being tortured?
Actually GOD said it repented he had made man. Stop and think about that. It repented that he has made man. This was from GOD's heart. WoW He is fully aware of what he has allowed to happen and the consquences of sinful state of man.

NIV
The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
GOd decided the solution to the problem of man's sin. There wasn't a solution as the law demands. The only way around the law was to send an innocent man, blameless to die in the place of sinners. Since there was no clean man the only other choice GOD has was to send his own SON. One out of the three standing members of the GODhead. A GOD that never experienced sin and took it upon himself to give us life freely by salvation.

There is no freedom without the law. GOD shows he is also under his own laws.

Dusty1000, it is called freewill...you have a choice to choose or not. It is your freedom....why don't you try a prayer and ask GOD to show himself to you, if he is real. Remember you are the sinner show humbleness and be prepared to be awaken.

GOD loves family and wants to share his world with us. One of the requirement is to be sinless and be holy like GOD.
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
Well if being born means spending eternity being tortured, then of course it would be better not to be born.
That is a very good point and I have asked GOD this. The understanding I got from thinking like this. Take a step back and realize what you have just said. Where would something like this come from? What is the reason or motivate someone to speak these things. I realized, I am selfish and want to bend the rules into my favor. This is why GOD has allowed our bodies to be mortal because it is beyond fixable.
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
WOW!!!!! That shows how terrible our sinful state we acquired by sinning against GOD.
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08-01-2012 03:20 PM  9 years ago
BDIS

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Again, for everyone that doesn't know what the GOSPEL really is:

Watch at YouTube

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08-01-2012 04:09 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Actually GOD said it repented he had made man. Stop and think about that. It repented that he has made man. This was from GOD's heart. WoW He is fully aware of what he has allowed to happen and the consquences of sinful state of man.
NIV
The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
But an omniscient god would have known in advance that was going to happen. So why would he do something which he knew he would later regret?
GOd decided the solution to the problem of man's sin. There wasn't a solution as the law demands. The only way around the law was to send an innocent man, blameless to die in the place of sinners. Since there was no clean man the only other choice GOD has was to send his own SON. One out of the three standing members of the GODhead. A GOD that never experienced sin and took it upon himself to give us life freely by salvation.
There is no freedom without the law. GOD shows he is also under his own laws.
But an omnipotent god would make his own laws, therefore he could make them whatever he wanted them to be. Given that he made man on earth, knowing he would later come to regret doing so, why would he also make laws which would entail most people being doomed to eternal torture, unless that's exactly what he wanted to happen?
Dusty1000, it is called freewill...you have a choice to choose or not. It is your freedom....why don't you try a prayer and ask GOD to show himself to you, if he is real. Remember you are the sinner show humbleness and be prepared to be awaken.
Well I did used to pray to the Christian god when I believed he existed, when I was very young. He can't have shown himself to me though, because I no longer believe he exists. As I have long since concluded that all gods and demons etc are figments of people's imaginations, that is what I believe. Because of course what we believe depends on conclusions we reach, rather than on choices we make. Praying to a god I don't believe exists isn't going to lead me to believe it does exist, any more than you praying to some god you don't believe exists would lead you to believe it exists.
That is a very good point and I have asked GOD this. The understanding I got from thinking like this. Take a step back and realize what you have just said. Where would something like this come from? What is the reason or motivate someone to speak these things. I realized, I am selfish and want to bend the rules into my favor. This is why GOD has allowed our bodies to be mortal because it is beyond fixable.
But why would an omniscient god create anything, knowing it was going to become beyond fixable? Would you do the same, particularly if it entailed most of mankind being doomed to eternal torture? What could god's motive for doing that be?

Dusty
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08-01-2012 04:29 PM  9 years ago
InvertedDude

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Dusty1000
Well I did used to pray to the Christian god when I believed he existed, when I was very young. He can't have shown himself to me though, because I no longer believe he exists. As I have long since concluded that all gods and demons etc are figments of people's imaginations, that is what I believe. Because of course what we believe depends on conclusions we reach, rather than on choices we make. Praying to a god I don't believe exists isn't going to lead me to believe it does exist, any more than you praying to some god you don't believe exists would lead you to believe it exists.
What happened man? Did someone close to you die? If prefer PM...it's open to you.
But why would an omniscient god create anything, knowing it was going to become beyond fixable? Would you do the same, particularly if it entailed most of mankind being doomed to eternal torture? What could god's motive for doing that be?
I hate to say this. It is our own fault for where we are. This confession is the hardest thing a human can face. Once again freewill....we made the choice to swim lower than dirt by sinning.
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08-01-2012 07:05 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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Jesus picked me and called me out of darkness.
no the concept of jesus pulled you of your percieved darkness

you could have imagined the power of purity and honesty and called it gruffbar and it could have worked with faith exactly the same
You will still end up in hell if you do not take GOD's path for your salvation from your own sins
your so full of garbage

there is no hell. that is a perception you live in, you never go to such a place born through mythology and evolved to meet humans needs

the complete ignorance of theist is amazing how stupid they are when it comes to knowledge in history
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08-01-2012 07:06 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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Once again freewill....we made the choice to swim lower than dirt by sinning.
that is not something for you to judge
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08-01-2012 07:08 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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The only way around the law was to send an innocent man
you dont have a clue who or what jesus was.

he was a poor poverty stricken peasant who preached/healed for dinner scraps under roman oppression. The romans are the ones who wrote the bible long after jesus was dead.

his body thrown in a pit for dogs to eat
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08-01-2012 07:33 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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YOU have this life God gave men!
no such thing as a magic sky daddy who created anything.

anything to do with creation has been proven as factually being mythology
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